Business of the House

Debate between Cheryl Gillan and Jacob Rees-Mogg

Thursday 10th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Dame Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con) [V]]

Last week, the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) sent me a message hoping that I would vote for the amendment in the names of my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron) and himself. He then proceeded to talk out the provision that would have allowed clinically vulnerable MPs to participate remotely in debates. His message was an empty gesture. Twice this motion has been blocked, and it means that all elected MPs are not treated the same in this House.

This is an affront to democracy, especially when unelected Members in the other place can participate remotely in debates. It is a shameful position for the mother of Parliaments and a very poor international example. Mr Speaker and his office have been supportive throughout on this appalling situation, but can the Leader of the House please bring back this motion, perhaps as a 90-minute debate at the end of the day, so that we do not continue to gag vulnerable MPs and we allow them to contribute to debates? Otherwise, it makes a mockery of business questions; what is the point of requesting a debate when people like me cannot take part in it?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My right hon. Friend knows the sympathy I have with her, and that is why we brought forth the motion to allow her and others who are clinically vulnerable to participate in debates. It is quite extraordinary that the debate was talked out—indeed, by somebody talking out his own amendment, which is an unusual use of parliamentary procedure. I can assure my right hon. Friend that our efforts in this regard are kept under review. I would very much like it to be possible to allow people who are seriously clinically vulnerable to be able to participate, but I cannot give her any firm date at the moment.

Business of the House

Debate between Cheryl Gillan and Jacob Rees-Mogg

Thursday 15th October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am very reassured that you are sticking to the rules, Mr Speaker. It is essential that we have debates in person, otherwise the Government are not held to account.

Then we come on to the question of the United Kingdom. The vote was held in 2014, and it was won by the Unionists. The Scottish National party said at the time that it was for a generation. I know that the SNP is now a bit embarrassed about Alex Salmond, its former leader and almost the creator of its success. Its Members are cautious about the text messages they have sent and forgetful about some of the meetings that the current leader held with him. It is amusing that, as I understand it, the current leader of the Scottish National party, Mrs Sturgeon, was so busy preparing to answer questions in the Scottish Parliament that she forgot what she had been discussing at other times of the day. I do not find that these memory lapses occur when I prepare for business questions, but never mind that particular point.

It was said that the vote would last for a generation, and a generation is not seven years. What will we campaign on? The success of the Union. Some £7.2 billion has gone to Scotland, and 779,500 jobs in Scotland have been protected in the furlough scheme. The United Kingdom taxpayer is able to afford that because it is the taxpayers of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland coming together for the greater good of our wonderful nation.

[Dame Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con) [V]]

Back in March, as the elected chair of the Council of Europe’s Committee on Political Affairs and Democracy, I called on the 47 member states not to let democracy be a casualty of the covid crisis. My default position is usually to support the Leader of the House. It is ironic that in our own Parliament, despite having the technology, elected MPs who cannot attend Parliament for valid medical or other reasons are denied the right to participate remotely in proceedings other than questions, statements and Select Committees. However, it is good enough for the unelected Members of the Lords, who are able to use remote facilities to participate in debate. A vital part of democracy is currently being denied to elected MPs. In the face of the rising tide of covid infections, can we have a debate on the death of democracy in the mother of Parliaments, or will the Leader of the House get off his high horse and remove this restriction, which has resulted in the discriminatory silencing of the voices of so many of his colleagues, leaving them unable to perform their scrutiny function?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am obviously sympathetic to the position that my right hon. Friend finds herself in—she is a much respected Member of this House—but the truth is that democracy has not died; it is thriving, because we are holding our debates properly. My right hon. Friend does take part—she is taking part now in interrogative proceedings, which is an exception to our normal course of business. Debates do not work without interventions. I know that she wishes to introduce a private Member’s Bill on Friday, but when a Member introduces a Bill, they need to be questioned and cross-examined on what is happening. That does not work in remote proceedings. When we had remote proceedings, there was no facility for interventions. The remote voting system in the House of Lords went down, and they had to do it all over again. We cannot have systems that fail. When we are here in person, the debates work, the legislation is challenged and democracy is upheld.

Business of the House

Debate between Cheryl Gillan and Jacob Rees-Mogg

Thursday 3rd September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

This is one of the great virtues of our nation: we were able to act quickly, and it was right that contracts were awarded without tendering in an emergency to ensure that the necessary equipment, supplies and advice were provided. It is equally right that those decisions are held to account within this House. We have such an honest and un-corrupt country because of our free press and our outspoken House of Commons.

I cannot promise the hon. Lady a debate in Government time, but there are Adjournment debates and Backbench Business debates. If anyone, at any time, has evidence of wrongdoing, it is their duty to bring it to the Floor of the House so that it may be investigated. It is their duty to use every means at their disposal, including written questions, oral questions, asking me—quite rightly—for a debate and asking the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee for a debate. That is how we have ensured that our country has been so honest and so un-corrupt.

[Dame Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con) [V]]

Buckingham’s strong Conservative unitary council works closely with our local enterprise partnership, our business organisation—Bucks Business First—and our local healthcare trust. This presents a great opportunity to act as a pathfinder for greater local devolution. Our significant assets include Pinewood Studios, three enterprise zones and our leading space and motor sport industries. We also have, sadly, areas of deprivation and of course the impending lay-offs from Heathrow and the aviation industry, which are presenting major challenges. May I ask the Leader of the House for an urgent debate on economic recovery and devolution so that we can set out how Buckinghamshire Council, with the right investment combined with devolved funding and more freedoms and flexibility, could form a successful partnership within local government to spearhead the rebuilding of our economy and create the jobs that are so essential to the people who live in Buckinghamshire?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My right hon. Friend makes a compelling case for the varied and innovative economy in Buckinghamshire, supported by a well-led local authority. I am sure that many Members would be interested in taking part in a debate on economic recovery, although I think that these subjects could be included in the Opposition day debate next week. Local leadership will be crucial in the recovery from the coronavirus. We will set out our plans for devolution to local areas in the devolution and local recovery White Paper later this year. These plans will ensure that local economies have the investment needed to restart growth and the right regulatory environment to allow businesses to innovate freely and to really drive our recovery. Most of what my right hon. Friend is asking for is actually broadly in the pipeline.

Business of the House

Debate between Cheryl Gillan and Jacob Rees-Mogg

Thursday 9th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Gentleman raises a sad and important case and an issue that should concern us all. I will happily undertake what he has asked me to do and raise this issue with the Secretary of State for Transport to try to ensure that he gets a complete answer.

[Dame Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con) [V]]

I am privileged to be the honorary president of the Buckinghamshire Campaign to Protect Rural England, and its latest report, which is called “Greener, better, faster”, makes great reading. It sets out how the countryside itself can provide many of the solutions to tackling climate breakdown. Can the Leader of the House encourage his colleagues to hold a debate on this report in Government time to give us the opportunity to highlight further the ways in which we can support the transformational change needed across society to reach net zero emissions and at the same time preserving our landscapes, habitats and the wildlife living in them? I understand that Ministers have responded positively to the recommendations, and such a debate would enable them to put on record their support for the CPRE’s sterling work, which benefits us all.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for her question. I have not yet read the report that she refers to, but I hope she will agree that the Government want to ensure that our economic recovery is sustainable and environmentally friendly. Many of the measures announced by the Chancellor yesterday will ensure that that is the case. We are already championing innovative and eco-friendly technologies, and our ambitious Environment, Fisheries and Agriculture Bills will enable us to protect our precious natural environment and diverse ecosystems for years to come, in line with the legal commitment for a net zero economy by 2050. Along with my right hon. Friend, I and many others representing rural constituencies want to see the country’s rural economy coming firmly back to life in the next few months. Our countryside is far more than an attraction to preserve in aspic; it is made by the millions of people who live and work there, and I believe the Government must do all they can to support rural lives and livelihoods throughout this recovery.

Business of the House

Debate between Cheryl Gillan and Jacob Rees-Mogg

Thursday 2nd July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising this important question. The Government have given unprecedented support to businesses. Obviously, questions arise in relation to areas that have had localised shutdowns and what the considerations around that will be. The good news is that the Chancellor will be here to make a statement on Wednesday, which will be the right point at which to ask these detailed questions.

[Dame Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con) [V]]

May I echo the request for the Leader of the House to reconsider on shielded Members such as myself being able to participate in debates,? If he did so, I would be able to participate in a debate I would like to see on education, which would allow us to pay tribute to those teachers who have valiantly been providing lessons throughout the lockdown period, either remotely or where the schools have remained open. Perhaps that would also give us the opportunity to look at the exam timetable and get some certainty for parents and children, particularly in Buckinghamshire, as to whether the 11-plus exams will be held in October. Of course, I cannot take part in that debate unless he reconsiders the position of shielded Members such as myself.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My right hon. Friend has already managed to make the point that she might have made in the debate, so I am glad to say that our hybrid procedures facilitate the involvement of all Members. On debates more generally, I know that the Procedure Committee is looking at that question. The issue is: how do we allow debates to run properly and in a free-flowing way, with interventions and so on, with people who are not present? We await with interest what the Procedure Committee has to say. I know that there are tremendous grammar schools in her constituency, and this country has been very well served by grammar schools over the years, decades and centuries. The Government are working with the sector to provide guidance, and I hope she will join me in welcoming the Education Secretary’s statement later today on further measures on the autumn opening of education settings.

Business of the House

Debate between Cheryl Gillan and Jacob Rees-Mogg

Thursday 24th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Dame Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

This week I had the pleasure of having a meeting with the restoration and renewal team, particularly those who are writing the specification to ensure that we include facilities that are friendly to people with autism. May we have a debate on autism-friendly facilities? Perhaps we could also have an experiment in this House that would create a more relaxing environment for autistic visitors, including returning to waving our Order Papers in the air rather than clapping, which often causes distress to people with autism.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My right hon. Friend has probably been the leading politician in raising awareness of autism in this country. I must confess that as a Back-Bench MP, as I became more aware of it and the effect it had on my constituents, the more grateful I became for the work she has done. I will certainly take up her suggestion with the House’s diversity and inclusion team, and indeed the restoration and renewal project, to see whether there is more that we can do to make autistic visitors feel more welcome. Orderly matters are for you, Mr Speaker, but I think that the feeling that clapping is not welcome is widely shared—although it may simply be, on my part, the sadness that nobody has ever bothered to clap me. [Laughter.]

Business of the House

Debate between Cheryl Gillan and Jacob Rees-Mogg

Thursday 17th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving me credit for it, but the credit belongs to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, who has achieved this remarkable success in a deal that all of us can support. Every single Member who stood on a manifesto saying that they would respect the will of the people in the referendum can support the deal with confidence. All our socialist friends can support it with confidence because it delivers on the referendum result. Today is a really exciting day in British politics. All Eurosceptics—all my friends who sit where I used to sit—can rally around this great deal, and I hope that my friends in the DUP will also find that what it does for the whole of the United Kingdom is something in which they can have comfort and that they can support. I understand that our separatist friends do not want anything for the benefit of the whole United Kingdom; they are always trying to pick things apart, but they will be shown to be wrong.

The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) asked if I would at any point have to eat my words. I must say that this deal is the tournedos Rossini of a deal—it is a deal that one can eat with joy and pleasure, and it is the finest culinary delight for me to have.

I apologise to the hon. Gentleman, but I did not pay unduly close attention to the SNP conference, having other things to do of slightly more interest, although it has to be said that almost anything would have been of slightly more interest—I noticed that the hon. Gentleman was very pleased to be here in the House of Commons earlier in the week to avoid his leader’s speech. The difference between Scotland and Northern Ireland is absolutely clear, and that is the Belfast agreement—the Good Friday agreement—and the fact that there is a land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, and that is a land border with the European Union. Northern Ireland is therefore unquestionably in a unique position, hence its difference.

[Dame Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

We have our own environmental emergency in Buckinghamshire at the moment at Great Missenden. Despite Buckinghamshire County Council, Chiltern District Council, myself and the local councillors all asking the Department for Transport to halt the enabling works at Great Missenden for HS2 until the Oakervee report has come in, they have gone ahead. We have traffic chaos on the A413. I have been sent pictures of an ambulance and a fire engine being held up. Eight trees are going to be felled and people are demonstrating outside Great Missenden. May we have a debate on HS2 before the Oakervee report comes in so that we can give the Secretary of State for Transport courage to cancel this terrible project—phase one at least—and spend the money better on other parts of the United Kingdom whose transport infrastructure desperately needs improving?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My right hon. Friend makes a very fair point on behalf of her constituents and the people who live in Great Missenden, and I will certainly take what she says to the Transport Secretary to try to ensure that she gets a prompt response to the letter that she sent to him. When these sorts of projects are under review, I would encourage people to proceed in a thoughtful and careful way, and to consider the interests of communities affected by the works, particularly due to the inconvenience that may be caused. Perhaps there is a special feeling of the inconvenience that may be caused in this context, because I understand that the road to Chequers passes through Great Missenden, so this might be of immediate interest to the Prime Minister and I am sure that he will want to know about it.

Business of the House

Debate between Cheryl Gillan and Jacob Rees-Mogg

Thursday 26th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that temperate language is often to be encouraged. He mentioned bilocation. I think Padre Pio, not that long ago canonised, was famed for his ability to be in two places at once, and there is good evidence for this. I am surprised that the SNP do not consider themselves sufficiently saintly to be able to achieve the same and be both at their conference and away from it. The most important point that the hon. Gentleman raised was about the SNP’s Opposition day. I will say on behalf of Her Majesty’s Government that SNP Members may have an Opposition day any day next week; should they wish to have a vote of confidence, it will be theirs.

[Dame Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Mr Speaker, you will know of the threat that is posed to our countryside in Buckinghamshire and, despite all the rain that has fallen, the drought that has caused the problems with our chalk streams. Will the Leader of the House give us an opportunity, now that we are back in Parliament, to discuss the excellent report by Julian Glover and his team on national parks? We could debate his recommendation that the Chilterns area of outstanding natural beauty is a suitable subject to receive the protection of national park status.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Anything that my right hon. Friend says is likely to be an excellent idea, so I have a great deal of sympathy for her request for a debate, but I am afraid that I will once again throw it over to the Chairman of the Backbench Business Committee because it is entirely suitable for that Committee.