Pubs and Planning Legislation

Debate between Charlotte Leslie and Stephen Williams

Thursday 12th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Williams]

I am being invited to depart from my prepared remarks again, but that is the nature of debate. I do not know the whole history of the planning system. It has obviously evolved over a long period since the original Town and Country Planning Act 1947, which was passed by the Attlee Government. There may well be anomalies within the system; I am not aware of its full history. The motion gives examples including theatres and launderettes. I do not know how many theatres there are in Easington compared with the number of pubs, but I can tell the hon. Gentleman that in my constituency of Bristol West there are hundreds of pubs and only two theatres: the Bristol Old Vic, the oldest and longest-running professional theatre in the country, and the Bristol Hippodrome. I am thinking off the top of my head here, but this is probably a matter of proportionality. Theatres are important to the community, and there are likely to be only a few in any given town or city, which might be why they are given that protection.

The same could apply to launderettes, although on the face of it, that might seem odd. There are far fewer launderettes in my constituency than there are pubs, and every time someone tries to close one, the local residents use the planning protections to fight the closure. Launderettes are obviously important, particularly for people who live in flats or houses of multiple occupancy. They are also important in city centres and university towns, where not everyone has the facility to wash their clothes at home. I think that that is why there is a distinction for launderettes, and I would not put the hundreds of pubs in any given location into that same category.

Local planning authorities can currently protect pubs by making an article 4 direction, which has the effect of removing national permitted development rights, and they can use that power where it is necessary to protect the amenity or well-being of an area. Once a direction takes force, a planning application must be made before any development can take place. Article 4 directions can be targeted at individual pubs or applied over a specified geographical area, as appropriate. The shadow Minister had some questions about article 4 usage, but she is no longer in the Chamber. She will be able to read my answers in Hansard, however.

The Secretary of State no longer has the power automatically to block article 4 applications, but he does have the power to ensure that they are not being applied completely disproportionately—right across a local authority area, for example. They are meant to be targeted. More than 130 local planning authorities currently have article 4 directions in place, 26 of which apply specifically to pubs. They include pubs in the London boroughs of Wandsworth, Camden, and Kensington and Chelsea, as well as in Bristol and Cambridge. So the powers are being used, but not as extensively as CAMRA would like. That is one reason that we considered bringing forward the change that was announced on the day of the Infrastructure Bill’s Report stage.

The listing of assets of community value under the Localism Act gives local people a greater stake in the future of assets listed and triggers a moratorium on any sale, enabling local people to develop a bid to buy the asset and ensure its continued contribution to their community. We welcome the fact that a third of the 1,800 assets across the country that have been listed so far—around 600—have been pubs. This has been by far the most popular use of the right, which has been in place for the past couple of years—not four years, as my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North West said. Those pubs include the Greenbank pub in Easton, in my constituency. I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West has recently been involved in getting Lamplighters pub in her constituency reopened, and I should like to extend an invite to her. She and I should go to The Lamplighters to celebrate her engagement —maybe this weekend. I will buy the drinks for me and her, and for John, and we will find the necessary 21 people who want to list the pub as an asset of community value so that we can get it protected. Let us see if our diaries work.

[Charlotte Leslie]

You’re on!

[Stephen Williams]

I fully understand the widespread concern that pubs that are valued by communities could still be lost because of the regulatory environment of the planning system. That is why, on 26 January, we announced our intention to disapply the permitted development rights for the change of use or demolition of any pub that is listed as an asset of community value. I hope that that addresses the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point (Rebecca Harris) about the King Canute on Canvey Island.

Pubs are not just useful to local communities as gathering places; they can also be significant landmarks along the high street. That is certainly true of the Ashley Court hotel in my constituency, which I mentioned earlier. It did not quite come up to scratch in terms of architectural merit, which is often the problem in big cities that have lots of listed buildings, but it was nevertheless an important landmark and now it has gone. However, demolition will now come within the scope of the changes that we are making.

The measure will be effective for a five-year period from the date of disapplication of the permitted development rights. That will affect the loophole to which my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North West referred. Under the present listing rules, if a sale takes place, the clock starts again on the listing. We have already foreseen that loophole, and I am grateful to CAMRA for discussing it with me. We are therefore proposing that the protection should be in place for five years from the date of the disapplication. That will mean that, for those pubs, a planning application must be made to a local planning authority before a change of use or demolition of the pub can take place. That will give the decision back to the council representing the local community—giving people a say, as has been suggested several times—and provide an opportunity for local people to express their views and offer any counter proposals.

I want to deal with some of the other points raised in the debate. The process for listing assets of community value has been described as bureaucratic and costly. The hon. Member for North East Derbyshire said that communities might not have the ability to deal with such a process. I understand that these rights are quite new and that there is still some knowledge to be gained about how they should be applied. That is why other Ministers and I, along with representatives of the partner groups we are working with in the Localism Alliance, are going round the country explaining how these community rights work. We know that there is still some awareness to be raised, however. The process for listing assets of community value is actually very straightforward. The requirement is simply to find 21 people who support the listing of a building or piece of land as an asset of community value and to submit an application to the council. There is absolutely no cost to that group of 21 or more people; the cost to them is zero.

My right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt)—who has had to leave the debate early to attend another engagement—asked whether we will review the changes after 12 months. They are linked to the Localism Act rights that we have introduced, and we have already committed to conducting a formal review of how that Act is being applied, later in 2015. We have already been gathering evidence informally, including from CAMRA, on how the rights are being used, and that review will certainly happen.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West asked how to publicise the rights, and that is particularly important now that the listing of an asset of community value will have even more teeth than before. I suggest that, as constituency MPs, we will all want to publicise all sorts of things over the next few months, so we now have a real opportunity to go out into our communities and raise awareness of these issues. I think that my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North West mentioned his occasional use of the pubs in Otley. I follow him on Twitter and from what I read I think he is much more than an occasional user. We should go out into our communities and publicise these changes. CAMRA, which has been working with the Department as a valued partner for quite some time now—since the Localism Act rights came into place—has published its own “how to” guide on listing assets of community value. I am sure CAMRA will update it to take into account the new teeth this new right will have.

I have dealt with the cost of listing, but my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North West and the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) also mentioned the cost to authorities of listing assets. I was surprised to hear my hon. Friend say that Leeds city council says it takes 16 hours of officer time to deal with each application—I believe that is what he said, but he will correct me if I am wrong. No doubt my officials back in Marsham street will have picked up on that and will check whether it is the case. The procedure is quite straightforward in the legislation. We are aware, and some of the evidence we have been gathering from partners shows, that some local authorities are gold-plating what they need to do under the regulations. I do not suggest that Leeds city council is necessarily doing that, but we are aware that it is happening in some places. The procedure, as laid down in the Localism Act, is straightforward for listing an asset of community value. It is very simple for the promoters of that listing and it ought to be similarly simple for the local authority to consider whether the proposal meets the tests, as set out in the legislation.

My hon. Friend and others referred to the practices of pub property companies and others who deliberately promote the closure of local pubs in their area. I was made aware this morning of a report in the Evesham Journal about NewRiver Retail writing to 11 of its owned pubs in the Dudley area, which it seems to want to convert into Co-ops, and suggesting that the pub managers, for an incentive—I put it no strongly than that—should not seek to obstruct what it is doing. Planning law cannot stop all those sorts of commercial practices, but if any of the pubs in Dudley or elsewhere are important to the local community, people should get out there right now and list them, in order to give protection.

We believe the measure we have proposed strikes the right balance between protecting valued community pubs and avoiding the blanket regulation that could lead to more empty buildings around the country. We intend to introduce the required changes to secondary legislation at the earliest opportunity, and we will lay the regulations before the end of this Parliament. The Government have in place common commencement rules for changing business regulations on 6 April and, I believe, 6 October each year. We intend that these regulations will come into place on 6 April 2015—that deals with a key question Members asked—and we will lay the statutory instrument necessary for that in good time to make sure it happens.

I invite all hon. Members to join me in urging local communities to come together to support their local pub, use the community rights we have given them and nominate their local pub as an asset of community value. As I said, 600 pubs have been nominated so far. That is a good start, and if we all get behind this, working with CAMRA and local amenity groups, that number can expand significantly in a short time. If people think their local pub plays a key social and economic role in their community, they should act decisively and act now. They should not be reactive. I think someone spoke earlier about these changes and people being reactive. People should be proactive. I have been saying that, as other Ministers have, for the past 18 months or so. People should not wait for a threat. The right is there now, so please use it. If people think any community asset is important, they should list it now—they should not wait for a threat to come along.

The change we are making has been described as “modest”, but giving planning protection to pubs that are listed as an ACV is a significant change. The Government can fairly say that, without doubt, the future of local pubs will now lie in the hands of local people.

Local Rail Services (Bristol)

Debate between Charlotte Leslie and Stephen Williams

Wednesday 29th June 2011 Westminster Hall

[Charlotte Leslie (Bristol North West) (Con)]

This debate is on the future of local Bristol rail, an issue that affects not only my constituency of Bristol North West and the city of Bristol but, because the south-west is so important a part of Britain, our nation as a whole.

Bristol is a significant city facing enormous developments, but the transport infrastructure is poor. Traffic congestion at our key motorway junctions can stifle the city and—not unrelated—bus fares are among the highest in Europe. Indeed, instead of being the gateway to the south-west, Bristol and its region can be described as the tourniquet of the south-west. The city is not standing still, however, with a new deep-water port at the port of Bristol making the docks of greater national and international significance, the possible sale for commercial use of Filton airfield in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Filton and Bradley Stoke (Jack Lopresti) and the substantial housing development across the northern arc of Bristol. They are all opportunities but, unless the city’s transport infrastructure is capable of supporting them, opportunities could represent burdens. I asked for this debate to emphasise to the Government the importance of supporting long-term transport infrastructure in Bristol, and to point firmly towards rail providing the bedrock of that transportation.

I am delighted that electrification of the Bristol to London line is going ahead—a major boost for the city—and it paves the way for the kind of long-term thinking we need.

[Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD)]

I agree with my hon. Friend that the electrification of the Great Western main line is a fantastic announcement by the coalition Government. Does she agree that that announcement will be enhanced if we could get a commitment from the Government for the Severn Beach line, which is merely a small spur off the main line, to be electrified at the same time?

[Charlotte Leslie]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point, which anticipates what I was going to say. He has done a lot of work lobbying for electrification, and I thank him for that.

The electrification is fantastic and, as I said, long-term thinking is massively important, not that the current smaller schemes for improvement are not welcome. However, unless we also think long term, and think big, those improvements will merely scratch the surface and we will not have the available infrastructure to maximise the effects of the small schemes. I am tempted to draw an analogy with Joseph Bazalgette’s building of the great London sewer system. There is no more time for devising more effective ways of throwing waste out of the window. For transport in Bristol, we need to devise a structural system that completely changes the way we do things.

When we come to the solution, there is good news: the bare bones of that new structure for transport in Bristol already exist. Disused and used freight lines lace the city, in particular in and around my constituency of Bristol North West, in the north of the city, and there are disused stations such as Henbury. The city of Bristol is sitting on a dormant giant of rail travel.

I have campaigned with the Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways and others for a Henbury station and a Henbury loop line. The solution is a no-brainer: the resurrection of our local lines in Bristol, to complete the circle line around the city that we partially enjoy already with the Severn Beach line. A Henbury loop circle line could link with the major stations of Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway, and could provide a reference point for shuttle transport to major visitor destinations such as the Mall at Cribbs Causeway, in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Filton and Bradley Stoke. He cannot be here today because he is opening the new St Peter’s school in Pilning, but he has rightly said that, given the likely commercial and residential development if the sale of Filton airfield goes ahead, the case for examining existing rail provision and the possibility of resurrecting mothballed stations such as Filton would be really strong. With section 106 moneys coming from the significant housing development in the area, investment for such infrastructure does not seem out of the question.

In Bristol, which in the past I have talked about in terms of “A Tale of Two Cities” because of the deep socio-economic divides running through it, a circle line could open access and economic regeneration to some of the more deprived pockets of our great city, but the economic benefits do not end there. I understand that some Ministers have already travelled on the Severn Beach line, which runs from Temple Meads station up the west side of the city. That suburban line provides a demonstration of the untapped need and desire for local railway infrastructure, and the benefits of pump-priming investment. Since welcome investment by Bristol city council in 2008, which my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol West (Stephen Williams) was active in campaigning for, introducing more frequent services on the Severn Beach line, passenger numbers have rocketed by about 60%, enabling a long-term subsidy decrease as the service becomes economically more successful. Were the circle line circuit complete around the city, that percentage of passenger increase and revenue would likely be an awful lot higher—but what we need is joined-up thinking.

Among parliamentarians, I am delighted there is broad and energetic consensus on the need to work together for the future of rail in our region. Sadly, in the past, however, a certain lack of co-ordination has led to our region missing out on some major transport investment opportunities. That is why I take this opportunity to back strongly the creation of an integrated transport authority for the region. Other areas, such as West Yorkshire and Merseyside, have seen a major resurrection of their local suburban rail services and they have something significant in common: an ITA. So I congratulate our local paper, the Evening Post, and a one-man campaigning army, Dave Wood, on making the case for an ITA so energetically.

An integrated transport vision is as central to the beating heart of our city as a circulation system of veins, arteries and capillaries. With a strong, united voice, bids for projects such as the reopening of the Portishead line and the Henbury loop line can be more effective. If other regions can do it, why cannot we? The strong progress of our local enterprise partnership gives further hope and might provide a great basis for more joined-up thinking. So the big vision is a circulation system of rail around Bristol, linking with cycling and bus routes, and park and ride, to make all the schemes more effective.

More specifically, a major structural concern is to secure quadruple tracking up the Filton bank to Parson Street station, to alleviate the significant bottleneck which limits services locally. Failing to secure that now is a false economy, holding us back for the future, in particular given the existing demonstrable demand for more services. The electrification of the Bristol to London route is incredibly welcome, not only in itself but for the further opportunities it will provide, but any update from the Minister on how far the electrification will extend—for example, to Yate or Weston—would be most appreciated. Such an extension would open enormous opportunities for the suburban lines, with greater flexibility in rolling stock, new routes and diversionary routes for electric trains when needed. A 30-minute service from and to all stations in the former Avon area would be transformational, although it is quite a modest vision when compared with other major cities around the country.

As I said, the reopening of the Henbury loop and Portishead lines are particularly important specific proposals. An issue worked on and frequently raised by the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) is the safeguarding of Plot 6 at Temple Meads for a bus and train interchange. In the more immediate term, I seek clarification from the Minister about additional carriages for crowding relief in Bristol; more rolling stock is badly needed, which is an indication of the appetite for rail travel and the enormous unmet demand. I ask him to consider that seriously.

A Henbury loop line circuit is big thinking indeed, but rail gets to the core of tackling the underlying problems of Bristol’s transport system. Rail infrastructure for Bristol would be an absolute game changer for all the other methods of transport that we need to improve, freeing up the roads for buses and cyclists and transforming the park-and-ride potential. The idea has backing—indeed, the scheme is recommended in Network Rail’s route utilisation strategy—and I ask the Minister to look specifically at backing the scheme with practical financial support. Yes, the thinking is ambitious and long term, but I argue strongly that long-term strategic thinking and infrastructure investment is exactly what is needed if the entire Bristol region is to meet the real, pressing and ever-increasing transport challenges of the future. I called for the debate today because the future comes sooner than we think.