Energy Prices
Debate between Charlie Elphicke and Ed Davey(9 years, 10 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Mr Davey
No, I want to make some progress; I will give way later.
Secondly, I will demonstrate that the Opposition’s proposed new regulations would be bad regulations, resulting in higher prices for consumers, not lower. I am not against regulations where they work better than competition, but Labour’s proposed regulations, involving wholesale-retail price links, would produce yo-yo pricing and higher pricing, and consumers do not want either.
The first part of my argument is that consumers benefit most from increasing competition in energy markets, and not from introducing bad regulation. It is interesting to note that Labour used to agree with competitive energy markets. Back in 2002, under Labour, all gas and electricity price controls were abolished. The argument supported by the Labour Government at the time was that the gas and electricity markets had become more competitive and that regulation was no longer needed. When the present Leader of the Opposition became Energy Secretary of State in 2008, he continued to back a policy of no additional price regulation, even though it was already becoming clear that the big six energy firms created under Labour were not producing the competitive outcomes that Labour had said it wanted. So clear were the problems in the market that there were calls for an investigation of that market by the independent competition authorities. Those calls for an inquiry were rejected by Labour—specifically by the present Leader of the Opposition. Worse still, not only did he reject a competition inquiry, but he took no significant action to improve competition for consumers. Interestingly, he also took no action to reintroduce price regulation. He just did nothing.
Charlie Elphicke
It is important that we should test the credibility of the Opposition’s arguments against their record in government. To that end, will my right hon. Friend tell us what happened to gas prices and to fuel poverty under the last Labour Government?
Mr Davey
I think I counted three questions in there, and I shall try to answer all three, if I can remember them. The right hon. Lady said that Ofgem believed the situation to be getting worse. Certainly, its 2013 report compared the situation with the one outlined in its previous report and said that there were reasons for concern. That is why we supported its referral to the Competition and Markets Authority of our gas and electricity markets. She then talked about switching, and she was right to say that switching rates fell a little bit in recent years. The reason for that is that we have got rid of doorstep mis-selling. Doorstep mis-selling was responsible for a big boost in switching figures, but people were switching from one big six supplier to another, and often getting a very bad deal as a result. I am delighted that it has now been got rid of, even if that means that overall switching figures are down. Now, because we have made switching easier and faster—through collective switching and so on—we are seeing that situation turn around. This time, people are not switching between big six companies and getting a poor deal; they are switching away from the big six into the small suppliers and getting a much better deal. That is something that never happened under Labour.
Charlie Elphicke
To underline that point, I switched from SSE and British Gas to a new dual-fuel supplier a couple of years ago and saved 25%. The Opposition should not sneer at switching, because it can make a dramatic difference to people’s bills.
Mr Davey
Indeed. I was going on to respond to the right hon. Lady’s third question, because a host of deals are available across the country. I would have thought Labour Front Benchers wanted to support these deals and tell people about them and how people can switch and save money—if they really cared. For example, a year ago in London there was not a single deal in the market where the average household could get its annual supply of electricity and gas for less than £1,000, whereas today, because prices have been coming down, 13 deals offer the average household an annual dual fuel bill of less than £1,000.
I still want to do more. I am going to continue to fight for consumers every day that I hold this office, in stark contrast to the record of the Leader of the Opposition when he was Energy and Climate Change Secretary. The exciting news is that our competition from the smaller suppliers, which is taking huge numbers of customers from the big six, is now forcing the big six to act, too. Last autumn, the time when energy prices are normally put up, the big six froze them—without any regulation and without Labour’s price freeze. Yesterday, E.ON went further, cutting its variable gas tariff by 3.5%. Some have dismissed that cut as being only 3.5%, noting that gas wholesale prices fell by nearly 18% across 2014 and saying that the cut is too small. Let us look at what E.ON said. First, it notes that wholesale costs are 46% of the bill, so of course retail costs will not go down as fast as wholesale costs in any case, unless all costs, such as network and administration costs also fell by the same as wholesale costs—this observation is called arithmetic. Secondly, Tony Cocker, E.ON’s chief executive officer, has said:
“Given the possibility of a price freeze, we are undoubtedly taking a risk today”.
So we have to ask: if E.ON did not face the risk of Labour’s price freeze, would it have cut its prices even more?
Perhaps the Labour party does not want to listen to industry leaders, even the ones who are cutting prices, but the same point is being made by consumer champions. For example, Martin Lewis of MoneySavingExpert.com has warned that energy firms are not cutting their prices, even though they would like to, because they fear being locked in by a Labour price freeze that would make them suffer losses. Consumer champion—[Interruption.] Not a vested interest. Consumer champion Ann Robinson of uSwitch has speculated that the prospect of Labour’s price freeze could be to blame for the big six delaying cuts in standard prices.
Of course, there may be other explanations for the delay in the big six passing on the costs. When the Leader of the Opposition was doing my job, he explained that it was about energy companies buying their electricity and gas forward—hedging—to protect consumers. After a summit with energy firms—he was very good at having summits, after which no policy changes were announced—he said:
“We have recently seen big falls in wholesale gas and electricity prices, but I understand that because energy companies tend to buy in advance they won't be passed on immediately.”
One is tempted to ask: what has changed? Why did he do nothing when he could but now, months before an election, claim he has found an answer?
Whatever the cause, I welcome the fact that E.ON has not only cut its standard variable gas tariff, but is offering a fixed-price deal at just £923 for the average household. I want the other big energy firms to follow suit, but we will not need a regulation for that to happen. I confidently predict that competition will force the other large energy firms to cut prices, or they will continue to lose customers in droves to competitors—that is competition. Indeed, I am very confident that we will soon see more energy firms cutting their prices and offering even better deals.
Mr Davey
Did Members note that there was no quote from a source? The right hon. Lady was trying to compare a quote from a Labour source with a quote from a journalist—not terribly good.
We have always known that the freeze would be a bad idea. If wholesale prices rose during the freeze, small firms would go bust, damaging competition. If wholesale prices fall, energy firms would just make massive profits. If the freeze has become a cap, then that raises more questions. A cap implies that Labour’s regulation would work only one way. Wholesale price cuts would have to be passed on, but not price rises. Energy firms could only lose from such a regulation.
Opposition Members may not care about that, but they should remember that that means that consumers lose. For if the risk is only one way—lose—the energy firms will have to price in that risk in the prices that they charge, which means higher prices. Indeed, they will also have to price in extra regulatory uncertainty from Labour’s wholesale return to regulated prices. This will, therefore, be disastrous for consumers. Clearly, Labour’s policy would end up raising prices, but what about its proposal to force, by regulation, wholesale price cuts to be passed on to consumers? How would that work? First, there would have to be a wholesale price—the reference wholesale price—used for the purpose. Last June, I asked the right hon. Lady whether that wholesale price would be priced daily, weekly or monthly and she did not answer. I have asked her again and she still has not answered. That is strange, because the Leader of the Opposition told Andrew Marr this Sunday that he wanted to fast-track regulation, so one would assume that he had worked this out. We can only guess. Will consumer energy prices yo-yo up and down every day, every week or every month with wholesale prices? We just do not know.
One of the main purposes of energy firms buying ahead and hedging is to protect consumers from yo-yo prices. Forward buying smoothes prices for consumers. Let me explain this rather fatal problem with the Opposition’s proposal another way. Let me use data from last year to show how Labour’s policy would work—or actually not work. Over the whole year, day-ahead wholesale gas prices fell by almost 18%. But that fall over the whole year masked significant ups and downs during the year. For example, between March and July, gas prices fell by almost 40% before rising again by nearly 50% by December. If Ofgem had forced suppliers to drop retail prices to consumers to reflect the lows in wholesale gas prices in July, would it have had to force companies to raise retail prices to reflect the highs of December? Or would the right hon. Lady expect the firms simply to bear that loss? No answer cometh. What a lot of nonsense this is.
Charlie Elphicke
Does my right hon. Friend not agree that having that yo-yo system would massively impact on continuity of supply, because we would not be able to have long-term contracts to guarantee the delivery and supply of gas to this nation?
Mr Davey
Indeed. The danger is that the Government—some sort of Gosplan regulator—would effectively have to decide the purchasing strategies of all energy companies. Clearly, Labour has found someone who is much better than all the market participants. I do not know who that individual is; he has not been identified. Not only is this a lot of nonsense, but it will be very costly. Firms will face higher administrative costs. They will have to notify customers of price changes far more regularly, and the customer will have to pay for that.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Charlie Elphicke and Ed Davey(9 years, 11 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Mr Davey
The hon. Lady is right that there is a real risk that when all the countries make their pledges next year, we will be some way short of what is required to keep global temperatures below the limit of a 2° C rise, which is what scientists say we need to achieve. We are doing a lot of work, not just in this country but in Europe and beyond, to see what can be done. There are pre-2020 measures that we should focus on, because the treaty would not come into effect before then. That is one reason why, when we negotiated the EU 2030 package, the phrase “at least” 40% was important—it gave us a chance to raise our ambition levels in Europe if we can persuade others across the world to do so.
Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)
The villagers of Shepherdswell in my constituency are concerned about plans for onshore gas exploration there. They are adjacent to an area of outstanding natural beauty, so will the Minister restate the guidance on that matter?
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Charlie Elphicke and Ed Davey(10 years, 8 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Mr Davey
I accept that we need to look at the electricity generating market. One of the reasons we support Ofgem’s proposals, which this week it was announced will go forward on 31 March, is that they will contest the vertical integration model for the first time. Again, it is this Government who are challenging the structures we inherited from the previous Government. We are allowing the competition authorities and regulators to take that contest forward, but the Labour party is saying that it must be against the consumer interest, yet it has no real evidence for that.
Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)
Does the Secretary of State agree that the high prices we see are not purely the result of the oligopoly set up by the previous Government, and that policy and energy mix are also important? To that extent, has he compared prices in Germany with those in the UK?
Mr Davey
There are a number of international comparisons on that basis, and the UK performs very well, by and large, particularly on post-tax analysis of domestic gas and electricity prices. But we should not be complacent; we should do everything we can to help customers and businesses with high energy bills.
Annual Energy Statement
Debate between Charlie Elphicke and Ed Davey
Mr Davey
We would not want more competition in the market if we were happy with what is going on, but the hon. Gentleman’s figures are not right. It depends on how wholesale costs are defined in any one year. Ofgem says that on one definition they have gone up by more than 8%.
Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)
Does the Secretary of State accept that Labour’s big six are an oligopoly that appears to operate as a price-fixing cartel? Is it not time to break them up?
Mr Davey
We would not be asking for an annual competition assessment if we were not concerned to ensure more competition. My hon. Friend is right: we have faced a market created by the last Government who created the big six. We have already taken many measures that are working to get independent suppliers and generators, and our liquidity reforms with Ofgem will make a big difference in the forward markets.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Charlie Elphicke and Ed Davey
Mr Davey
The Government have been focusing on this with great intensity from the Prime Minister down. Indeed, when we held discussions with our French colleagues and EDF, we made it clear that we expected there to be British involvement in the supply chain, and that is beginning to happen. I refer the hon. Gentleman to the many agreements that were signed in Paris, including a ground-breaking £400 million deal on nuclear projects between Rolls-Royce and Areva.
Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)
5. What steps he is taking to lower consumer energy bills.
The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change (Mr Edward Davey)
First, we are directly helping about 2 million vulnerable households with their bills through the warm home discount scheme, and many more households are benefiting from subsidised energy efficiency measures under the carbon emissions reduction target scheme. Secondly, later this year the green deal and the energy company obligation will provide energy efficiency measures at no up-front cost to households. Thirdly, we are looking to help consumers get better prices by harnessing their collective purchasing power.
Charlie Elphicke
I thank the Secretary of State for that answer. On consumer energy bills, does he agree that it is wrong in principle to finance carbon commitments on the back of the poor, which was the policy of the previous Government, and that we need a more imaginative way forward?
Mr Davey
I agree with my hon. Friend. I am a liberal, but I strongly believe that collective action can help solve some of society’s ills. That is why I promoted collective purchase and switching as consumer affairs Minister and am continuing to do so as Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change. It is a shame that the party of Keir Hardie and Aneurin Bevan forgot the power of collective action in its 13 years in government.
Jobs and Growth in a Low-carbon Economy
Debate between Charlie Elphicke and Ed Davey
Mr Davey
I am very grateful when the Labour party raises the matter of energy bills, because my constituents are concerned about their bills. The problem is that the Labour party did not do anything about the matter when it was in government. We are pushing collective switching, which Labour had 13 years to do. Some countries in continental Europe have been experimenting with the idea, but I am afraid her party did nothing.
Charlie Elphicke
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his newish appointment. My constituents are concerned about the many renewable and carbon commitments that the previous Government put on the backs of the poor through energy bills, particularly those such as the renewable heat incentive, carbon capture and storage commitments and feed-in tariffs. How are this Government looking after the least well-off, whom the previous Government were busy plunging into fuel poverty?
Mr Davey
My hon. Friend will know that the costs of the renewable heat incentive and CCS were put on to consumer bills under the previous Government. We have removed those levies, and those schemes are now paid for through taxation. That is a classic example of how we have helped consumers.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Charlie Elphicke and Ed Davey(14 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Davey
I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman has read our Post Office policy statement. I would have thought that he welcomed the fact that the measures we are taking are encouraging banks such as RBS to make their accounts available through the post office network in the towns and villages that he represents. I think that there is a much more positive future than under the previous Government and that is implicit in his question.
Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)
3. What recent discussions he has had on the future of local enterprise partnerships; and if he will make a statement.