Bankers’ Bonuses and the Banking Industry

Debate between Charlie Elphicke and Debbie Abrahams

Wednesday 25th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Charlie Elphicke]

Will the Minister give way?

Payday Loan Companies

Debate between Charlie Elphicke and Debbie Abrahams

Monday 20th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

It is a real pleasure to follow the hon. Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey) who made an interesting and well-informed speech.

My general philosophical approach is very much that we want to build a land of opportunity and aspiration where anyone can do well and where they have the tools to succeed and achieve and even reach for the moon. There is a flipside to that form of opportunity politics—that Conservatism—and that is that we also need to protect people from being taken advantage of. In too many cases, there is a history in this country of lax regulation, which has enabled people to be taken advantage of: water and power companies not properly regulated with rising bills; the banking system was not properly regulated and spawned payday lending; a tax system that was lax and weak and allowed industrial-scale tax avoidance, which was unacceptable; and employment law that is not properly regulated, even though it was previously reviewed and zero-hours contracts were allowed to carry on. In too many cases, this Government need to protect people and make sure they are not taken advantage of. In many instances action has been taken, however, and I welcome the action on payday lending announced by the Chancellor.

The problem is not a new one; it has been around for a while. I remember a client phoning me up back in 2006 and saying “I’m thinking of buying a payday lender.” I said, “What is that? I haven’t heard of it.” He explained what it was and I said, “This is a car crash in the making.” He said, “It’s great: it’s a rising a market and I can make lots of money out of it.” I said, “Don’t do it. People will not understand. It will not be acceptable, and sooner or later it will cause a massive scandal in this country and an enormous row,” and that has turned out to be the case. I am glad to say he did not take on that business, but many others did: they saw an opportunity and took it, and what has happened is wholly unacceptable in too many cases.

Many people say we should not take any action on payday lending because that will drive people into the hands of loan sharks, but the evidence from the Bristol university department for business was that when customers could not access short-term loans, most would either go without or approach a friend or relative for help. It showed that a small number would try to borrow from other short-term lenders, but that the use of an illegal lender was not an option that the vast majority would consider. It does not seem right, therefore, to say that most people would end up going to loan sharks.

I want briefly to look at the international comparators. This is not simply a UK problem. It is a problem worldwide, and many other countries have taken action to try to deal with it. The hon. Member for West Bromwich West spoke movingly about advertising and related issues. I want to talk about interest rate caps and what we can do to control the excessive amount of money that is often demanded by payday lenders.

The USA has introduced caps, and the overall result has been substantially to restrict the market. Payday lending has been dramatically reduced as a result. Other countries have gone down different routes. Canada, for example, has introduced substantial regulation for short-term loans and established a payday lending education fund. It has also introduced a two-day cooling-off period during which customers can cancel their payday loan, and banned the inclusion of fees in the value of the loaned amount. The payday loan industry has set up its own industry body. There are also rules banning the rolling over of payday loans; the issuing of multiple payday loans to the same customer; the taking of collateral as security; and the charging of an interest rate greater than 90 cents a week for the first 13 weeks. Canada has thus produced a system of regulation that involves capping amounts of money, rather than capping interest rates.

Japan has introduced an interest rate capping system, set at around 20%, which was implemented in 2010. Australia has introduced an interesting system of payday loan regulations, as many hon. Members will be aware. It has looked at a form of regulation similar to the one we are considering. Those international comparators suggest that we should consider not only an interest rate cap but perhaps a cap involving a particular amount per £100 over a set length of time, and I hope that hon. Members will consider that.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

A bit closer to home, in Oldham—and elsewhere in this country—there are good examples of credit unions. They charge very low interest rates and work in the collective interest, which I am sure we all agree is a good thing. Does the hon. Gentleman agree?

[Charlie Elphicke]

I am in complete agreement with the hon. Lady. Credit unions are a good idea, and mutual finance is a good thing. I am a fan of mutuals, having made the case for my own port of Dover to become a people’s port—a community mutual. We have mutuals in the financial sector in this country, but they are rarely mentioned. What happened to the building society movement? Why is no one fighting for that these days? Building societies are mutual organisations. We should look again at what we can do with them and at the kind of organisations they could become. They are substantial organisations, and this is something we should look at. In Australia, the credit unions have been more successful than they are here. Here, we have a building society movement, and we should look at developing it.

I want to touch on a further concern. Why is the payday lending industry there at all? Why has it arisen? I believe that bank overdrafts have a lot to do with it. Anyone who has an unauthorised overdraft will be charged 20 quid for a letter and 50 quid for the unauthorised overdraft fee, plus an extra amount per cheque or payment. That is wrong; it is egregious. When people have run out of money and cannot get an authorised overdraft, it is the behaviour of the banks that can help to drive them to the alternative credit providers. A practical step would be to look into the banks’ behaviour. We need to strike a balance between protecting customers from being stung by the banks when they have short-term cash-flow problems and making access to irresponsible credit too easy for them.

I propose that the banks should operate a grace period, so that people who ended up with an unauthorised overdraft would not get hit with fees immediately. They should be able to overdraw for a short time without being charged. That would reduce the numbers being forced to seek alternative forms of credit. There should also be a wide-ranging review of the way in which the banks handle overdrafts, and of their ability to help people who find themselves short of funds in the short term. Most of us in the House want to defeat the payday lending industry, and the best way to do that is to provide an alternative for people who do not have much money and who are in real need of assistance. I am also concerned about the EU consumer credit directive. The ability of lenders to operate across EU borders makes it possible for payday lenders to bypass anything that we decide here. That needs to be carefully considered and addressed.

Finally, what more can we do, above and beyond what the Financial Conduct Authority is proposing to look at when it takes over in a few months’ time? We could consider the following measures: setting a ceiling on the total cost of borrowing, rather than setting an interest rate cap; seeking reform of the European consumer credit directive; introducing tougher sentences for illegal lending, including mandatory prison sentences; enabling victims of illegal lending to recover all payments made to the lender, plus extra, rather like what the Labour Government did with tenant deposit schemes; requiring payday lenders to form an accredited industrial body; and requiring banks to give a grace period of three working days before customers are charged for unauthorised overdrafts.