Welfare Reform Bill

Charlie Elphicke Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clarke]

The hon. Lady makes a very good point.

The people who know the most about DLA know that it is very difficult to secure. Claims have been made, if not by Members on the Government Benches then certainly by newspapers that support the Government, that the system is being abused, but the people who know about abuse are those who experience DLA for themselves. It is not a question of not dealing with that. As a result of the Government’s proposals, people who live in residential homes have experienced uncertainty, inconsistency and pledges being reneged on. Today, when we are being asked to make a specific decision on a Bill that will impact on those people, we have yet again heard a series of vague statements from the Minister that mean absolutely nothing.

To be fair to the Minister, she is not alone. The Secretary of State is equally culpable, as is the Prime Minister.

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Clarke]

No, I will not. I should like to carry on.

The Prime Minister has given contradictory statements to the House on this issue. In January, he said that

“our intention is very clear: there should be a similar approach for people who are in hospital and for people who are in residential care homes. That is what we intend to do, and I will make sure that it happens.”—[Official Report, 12 January 2011; Vol. 521, c. 282.]

He has been questioned on the issue at Prime Minister’s Question Time on four or five times. On 23 March, when my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition asked him whether there were plans to push through this proposal, he said:

“The short answer is that we are not.”—[Official Report, 23 March 2011; Vol. 525, c. 944.]

Despite that, and despite what we have heard again today—I repeat that I found it completely unconvincing—the intention remains in clause 83 of the Bill that we are being asked to support.

There is also the Red Book. Towards the end of the Budget debate—this has been going on for a long time, as I said earlier—I tried to intervene on the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. Why did he not give way? He did not, but there is at least consistency from Ministers in that respect when it comes to me. He did not give way.

[Charlie Elphicke]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Clarke]

I am talking about Ministers. The Chief Secretary did not give way, because I was going to ask him whether in the Budget vote we were being asked to support the page in the Red Book that took more than £470 million away from the people we are discussing today or a section that said we were going to have a review. Answer came there none. We have had statements; we have had a Budget; we have had the Prime Minister’s comments; and we have had the Bill that is being thrown at us today—yet 80,000 people still do not know what the future holds for them. That is wholly unacceptable.

As a result of the measures, 80,000 people will suffer. People on higher rate DLA mobility stand to lose out by £51.40 a week, which will impact on their ability to exercise independence and choice—things that we are told again and again by the Government they support when it comes to community care.

[Charlie Elphicke]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Fiona O'Donnell]

In that case, I suggest that the hon. Lady holds back her support for the Government until she knows what they are going to do. She spoke to us about the review, but when she looks at the record she will see that she thought it entirely appropriate for disabled people not to play a part in it. The Government ask us to have confidence in this information-gathering review, but its findings will be secret, disabled people will not be part of it and there will be no consultation on it. The hon. Lady thinks those are reasons for us to have confidence. I see Members on the Government Back Benches putting their heads into their hands, and well they may. These are the facts. What is being presented to the House is clearly unacceptable.

[Charlie Elphicke]

I thank the hon. Lady for her great courtesy and generosity in taking interventions, and for her old-fashioned charm in giving way—[Interruption.] Her modern charm.

The issue is not about taking things from people; it is about double-counting, so that we ensure that our scarce state resources are as well directed as possible. Surely that must be the right approach.