Covid-19 Update

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Monday 14th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

My hon. Friend makes a strong and important point. I get the impact on business—of course I do—and especially on international cruises. I am glad we were able to work with the cruise industry to get some domestic cruise trips going again, admittedly in a small way, essentially to pilot it. It is more difficult on an international front. I am very happy to work with her and my right hon. Friend the Transport Secretary on what more we can do.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) [V]]

Does the Secretary of State feel any shame that the reason we need to delay the easing of restrictions is entirely down to the incompetence of his Government—not only the three-week delay in putting India on the red list, but the utter failure to supress the virus through basic infection control, tracing and effective isolation? This is the fourth time the Government have let the virus spread. That might be great news for Serco, whose profits are up today, but it is a disaster for everyone else.

Does the Secretary of State recognise that, to protect people at home, we also have to do much more to vaccinate people in poorer countries, both because it is a moral imperative but also so that we reduce the chance of new variants being imported here? Will he therefore adopt a jab-matching policy so that, for every single dose administered in the UK from now on, we donate another dose to COVAX, as well as scaling up the UK’s vaccine production? The UK’s pledge of 100 million doses includes only 5 million by the end of September, and that is too little, too late.

[Matt Hancock]

No, I do not agree with most of that. In particular, I think the hon. Lady and the whole House should welcome the Prime Minister’s announcement that we will be ensuring that when we have excess supplies —I stress when we have excess supplies—we will donate 100 million doses around the world. I am not going to do that before we have excess supplies because we want to make sure people are vaccinated here at home.

--- Later in debate ---

[Caroline Lucas]

indicated dissent.

[Matt Hancock]

The hon. Lady shakes her head, but my first duty is to protect people here in this country, while at the same time making sure that people get access around the world, as we have done, for instance, with the Oxford-AstraZeneca jab—half a billion jabs have been done around the world. That is my order of priorities; I am very, very clear about it. We will help the rest of the world to get vaccinated, but we also need to look out for and vaccinate the British population. As for the first half of the hon. Lady’s statement, it was completely wrong.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Monday 7th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

That is an excellent question astutely put. The purpose of the road map, and the purpose of following the data within the road map and therefore having not-before dates, is that we are in a race between the vaccine programme and the virus, and with the delta variant the virus got extra legs. Our goal, sadly, is not a covid-free world, because that is impossible; the goal is to live with covid much as we live with some other unpleasant diseases, including, of course, flu. That does mean that there will be vaccinations long into the future; it means that, especially in winter, in hospitals for instance, we will have to be very careful to prevent infection from spreading; and it means that we will have to live with this virus and manage our way through it, but with the supreme power of science and the vaccine at our hand. That will be so powerful, and it is already proving, including through the data that I announced to the House just now, to be an incredibly powerful ally in getting us through this. However, at the moment, only 76% of people have had the jab and only 52% of people have had both jabs, and unlike with the previous variant, the second jab appears to be even more important this time around.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) [V]]

The Government’s former chief scientific adviser and the chair of Independent SAGE, Sir David King, warned today that current covid figures are

“evidence of another wave appearing”,

while the Office for National Statistics estimates a 76% increase in cases in England in the week ending 29 May. Given that the delta variant is more transmissible, has a higher risk of hospitalisation and has more vaccine escape the Kent variant, can the Secretary of State explain why he is not ruling out now any further lifting of restrictions on 21 June, so that we can get more adults double vaccinated first? Given that he acknowledges greater transmissibility among secondary pupils, will he look again at reversing the decision to end mask wearing in classrooms and at funding schools to enable them to increase ventilation? He says that he wants to keep schools open, and so do I, so why not take all the necessary steps to ensure that we can, and follow the advice of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies, Indie SAGE and many experts?

[Matt Hancock]

But why? Why on earth would you say, “I’m going to rule out doing something in two weeks’ time,” when we know that the extra data that we will get over the next week will help to make a more refined and more careful decision? I do not understand this argument that has been put by the SNP and the Green party that we should just make a decision now, when we will know more in a week’s time, so that is what we are going to do.

Covid-19: Government Handling and Preparedness

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Thursday 27th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) [V]]

The families of the bereaved deserve better than the grotesque pantomime of the Cummings evidence session yesterday. At the very least, they deserve the publication of the internal lessons learned review. A constituent of mine whose father died from covid acquired in hospital wrote to me to say that the refusal to release it is

“an insult to bereaved family members, who, in the midst of our own suffering, are determined to prevent other families from experiencing the loss we have”.

She is right because the big question is not just about mistakes the Government made last March, but why Ministers never learn from those errors and continue on a path that risks lives and livelihoods. The Secretary of State says he is being straight with the public and this House, so as continued Government negligence risks a third wave of the pandemic, will he finally publish that review urgently, not least so that it can be scrutinised before restrictions are due to be lifted next month?

[Matt Hancock]

Of course, we learn lessons all the way through and we follow the scientific developments that teach us more about this virus all the way through, and then we will also have a full inquiry afterwards to make sure that we can learn further lessons for the future. The thing I did not quite understand about the hon. Lady’s question is why she did not refer to the single most important programme that is saving lives, which is the vaccination programme. She should be urging her constituents and others to come forward and get the jab because that is our way out of this pandemic.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Monday 17th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, this is our planned approach. I am glad to say that the number of cases across the High Peak is very, very low. I am also glad to see that the vaccination rates across the whole of Derbyshire are really high—I was in Derbyshire just before the elections, and the rates are high and there is huge enthusiasm behind the project. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s work in making sure that that is what has happened.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) [V]]

Given that the so-called Indian variant is now a variant of concern and is linked to several outbreaks in schools, why have the Government just abandoned the requirement to wear face masks in secondary school classrooms? The Secretary of State is fond of claiming that he is following the science, but this flies in the face of scientific advice from SAGE, public health experts and teaching unions. It begs the question as to why he is getting rid of one of the few mitigation measures in schools that we know actually works when we have such a transmissible variant. No one wants to see face masks in schools for longer than necessary, but neither do they want children to lose out on face-to-face education because of virus outbreaks. Once community rates go up, school rates go up, so why is he needlessly putting education at risk?

[Matt Hancock]

The hon. Lady kind of answered the question in the question, when she said that everybody wants to see face-to-face education. The thing is that in a classroom setting, being able to see somebody’s face does have a material impact and, therefore, we do not want to have face coverings in school settings for longer than they are necessary, but we are prepared to have them in place where they are necessary. There is discretion for local directors of public health where there are significant challenges. It is something that we discussed, for instance, with the director of public health in Bolton and in Blackburn. That has been part of the discussions over the last few days. What the hon. Lady is asking for is a blanket approach, including in areas where the number of cases is incredibly low. The decision that we have taken, on balance—taking into account the education risks and the advice from SAGE and public health experts—

[Caroline Lucas]

indicated dissent.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Tuesday 9th February 2021 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I talk to my Israeli counterpart regularly, and I am impressed by the effort that Israel has delivered on to vaccinate its population. I am very happy to look into the detailed points that my right hon. Friend raises.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) [V]]

Projections show that some countries in the global south will have to wait until 2023 to achieve widespread vaccination because pharmaceutical monopolies are creating artificial restrictions. Given that no one is safe until everyone is safe, will the Secretary of State use his influence with Cabinet colleagues to ensure that the Government change their position and back proposals from India and South Africa to address pharmaceutical monopolies and help ensure that the world can produce enough vaccines for every country as soon as possible?

[Matt Hancock]

The hon. Lady would get a better hearing if she started on this subject by congratulating AstraZeneca, the British player in this vaccine race, on the fact that it is rolling out its jab with no profit at all. It is doing that in order to be able to vaccinate as many people around the world as fast as possible, at an affordable cost. That should be our starting point. There would be no vaccines if it was not for the global pharmaceutical industry. I pay tribute to all those working in the pharmaceutical sector. There is no way that we would have these jabs were a policy followed that disparaged the pharmaceutical sector in the way she proposes or in the way the Labour manifesto proposed at last election. Instead, we should come together to support industry, scientists, the NHS and Government. It is a massive team effort.

Coronavirus Vaccine

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Wednesday 2nd December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, I will. Let us work together and make that happen, with Stockport Council as well, and try to get those rates right down even further than they already are.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) [V]]

I echo the congratulations to all involved with the good news about this vaccination. Last week, I asked the Secretary of State to

“publish the modelling his Department holds on the effect of the relaxation of covid-19 restrictions over Christmas on covid-19 transmission rates”.

Yesterday I was told that it was “not possible to answer” that question yet. That seems quite extraordinary. Has the Secretary of State been given an estimate of how many additional deaths are likely to be caused by the loosening of restrictions over Christmas? If he knows the answer, I ask him to tell us now. If he does not know the answer, why would he make such a major decision without any idea of the number of deaths that could result?

[Matt Hancock]

We have to make judgments based on what is right, balancing the different considerations we have to take into account, including the yearning that many people have to come together at Christmas, and trying to find a balanced way through. We did that by working with the devolved authorities, and I am glad that we came to a UK-wide approach to Christmas, taking into account all the considerations that were necessary.

Covid-19: Winter Plan

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Monday 23rd November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, those values are important and should be rewarded. I hope that, in the areas of the country where the case rate has really come down a long way and is coming down fast, we will see the fruits of that effort. Having said that, it is absolutely critical that areas that need to go into tier 3 do so in order to get the case rate down and to protect the population. We will take these judgments based on public health advice over the forthcoming days. The reason that we have not set those details out today is that the more data we have the better. We want to give businesses time to plan to be able to reopen, but, at the same time, we do want to take into account the very latest data. In York, as in some other parts of the country, the number of cases is coming down, and I welcome that, but I want to see a few more days’ data before we can take those final decisions.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) [V]]

If these tougher tiers are to deliver sustained reductions in transmission then test, trace, isolate has to work better. Will the Secretary of State learn the lessons from countries where compliance with self-isolation is much higher, pay people more where necessary, offer hotel accommodation if needed, and fix the app so that people told to self-isolate via the app can now qualify for support? Will the Government stop repeating that they have given £13 billion to the self-employed when 3 million of them have been unfairly deemed to be ineligible? It is not good enough to say that it is too difficult or that we should wait until the economy is moving again. I say to the Minister: no ifs, no buts, no excuses, when will he give those people some hope?

[Matt Hancock]

The whole country knows that we are going through very difficult times, but I hope that the news, especially on vaccines, that we have seen over the past fortnight offers some hope about the way out. The hon. Lady mentions the test and trace system, as did the right hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer). I am very glad to say that not only is the testing regime and the opportunities that we have to roll out testing expanding very rapidly—I pay tribute to the team for that—but the contact tracing is improving. I am really pleased about that and pay tribute to all those who have been working to make that happen.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Tuesday 10th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

The expansion of testing capacity obviously opens up the number of different uses to which it can be put. We are working closely with the aviation industry—my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport is leading those discussions, but I am heavily involved in them—and I hope we can make some progress soon.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) [V]]

A constituent’s father is in a care home. He is non-verbal and relies on touch to communicate. She says:

“I have not been able to hug my dad for over eight months. I have not been able to hold his hand. I have not been able to…take his youngest grandchild to meet him.”

Eight months into this crisis, will the Secretary of State urgently set out the scope of his pilot keyworker-status scheme, accelerate its implementation and tell us when a combination of regular rapid testing and personal protective equipment will allow my constituent to safely hold her dad’s hand again and put an end to this slow torture?

[Matt Hancock]

The hon. Lady puts the point very movingly. The Minister for Care is leading on this issue with great compassion and I hope that we can make some progress soon.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Programme motion
Monday 19th October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes. My hon. Friend has spoken for Burnley with such passion throughout this crisis. It has been very difficult for Burnley, which has now seen the highest case rate among the over-60s in the whole country. It is so important, to protect people in Burnley, that everybody follows the rules there. First, we have to get the case rate and the cases among the over-60s falling. Once that starts to happen we can talk about when we can start to relax the restrictions—I do not want to have them in place for a moment longer than is necessary. With the expansion of testing that we are seeing, I hope we will be able to have more tools at our disposal to hold the virus down once we have got it down again.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

Rebuilding confidence in Test and Trace is critical, yet the Secretary of State has taken the potentially counterproductive step of arranging for data to be shared with the police for enforcement. That could deter people from getting a test in the first place, as the chief medical officer has reportedly indicated. So will the Secretary of State acknowledge that a more effective strategy would be to ensure that people have the financial security they need in order to be able to follow the rules in the first place? Following on from the question from the hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson), will he answer on whether this memorandum of understanding exists? If it does, will he publish it? If he will not do so, will he explain what he is hiding?

[Matt Hancock]

There is no health data that is transferred, but of course once this House has voted for an enforceable rule, it is important for all of our constituents and communities that we enforce it. So that is a necessary consequence of the House having voted for the self-isolation rules to be made mandatory, which I think was the right decision. On the financial support that the hon. Lady asks for, we have put in place £500 per self-isolation to support people on low incomes to make sure that they are able to do the right thing.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Thursday 17th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

My right hon. Friend raises an important point about the mathematics and the science of testing. I am sure he would enjoy reading the annexes to the ONS report that comes out each Friday, which address directly the question how the ONS adjusts for potential false positives, due to the high but not perfect specificity of the polymerase chain reaction test. I am very happy for one of my academics to take him through the rigorous Bayesian mathematics, which I am sure will help to elucidate the debate on this matter still further.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

Because of the testing shambles, I understand that covid tests now have to be rationed to high-risk areas, but that comes at a time of increasing case numbers in Brighton and Hove, where a yellow alert has just been issued amid record cases last week. How will new outbreaks in currently deprioritised areas be identified and contained if we are not testing properly in the community? How will contact tracing function? I am really worried about the impact of the rationing of tests on our chances of knowing about and containing new outbreaks in other regions.

While I have the floor, I ask the right hon. Gentleman to condemn the comments of the Leader of the House about an hour ago, when he told the public to stop their “endless carping” about the lack of access to tests. It is not endless carping; it is genuine concern about people’s health.

[Matt Hancock]

Given the hon. Lady’s understandable concerns for her constituents, she should welcome the record testing capacity that we have and the more than 3,000 tests that have been done in Brighton in the last week.

Coronavirus Response

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Monday 20th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I will bring the answer to that question to the Science and Technology Committee, which my right hon. Friend chairs, tomorrow. I commissioned an answer to precisely that question ahead of that appearance and was hoping that he would ask a different question today, but I have been found out.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

A test, trace and isolate system that holds public trust is vital, so can the Secretary of State explain why he considered the data protection impact assessment optional? How will he deal with mistakes that come to light, such as contact tracers sharing patient details on social media, as reported by The Sunday Times? In short, how will he increase trust in this essential system, given that bullish statements are no substitute for due diligence?

[Matt Hancock]

I will not be held back by bureaucracy. We made three data protection impact assessments, which cover all the necessary. I saw the report saying that we should have done one to cover all three, but we did the three and I think that will do the trick.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Tuesday 5th May 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) [V]]

Can the Secretary of State confirm that directors of public health and environmental health officers will not just be consulted but will be leading the delivery of community tracking and tracing efforts, given that that is what they have been trained to do? Can he reassure us that the Government will not repeat the mistakes they have made with drive-through testing centres and PPE supplies by outsourcing those critical tasks to private companies such as Serco, Sodexo and Deloitte, which, frankly, have proved that they are not up to the job?

[Matt Hancock]

I agree with the hon. Lady on the first part of her question, but she is completely wrong on the second part. In the first part, she asked whether local public health officers and environmental health officers will be a critical part of test, track and trace, and the answer is yes, they will be vital. On the second part, she is completely wrong. There is no way that we could have delivered the testing programme without the unbelievable support, help and effort of private partners in the diagnostics industry and in delivery—companies such as Deloitte and Boots, which delivered that amazing expansion of the drive-through centres in such a short period. I pay tribute, hand on heart, to the work of every single person in that programme, whether they work in the private sector or the public sector—whether they work in the NHS, in the Department, for Boots or for Deloitte. Frankly, to try to divide people in that way suggests that she has missed the tone of where the country is right now.

Covid-19 Response

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Wednesday 22nd April 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

We are looking into that question and I will write to my hon. Friend as soon as we have an answer.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) [V]]

On contact tracing, I welcome the fact that the Secretary of State is working with experts in digital ethics because if it is not run transparently by a public company with code open to public oversight and data anonymised, people will not trust the system and it risks failing. Does he agree that only a community-led process of human contact tracing can provide the fine-grained and reliable data that such an app would depend on? Will he learn the lesson from the over-centralised organisation of the testing approach and instead adopt a more decentralised approach for contact tracing, using local environmental health officers and PHE’s regional outbreak management teams?

[Matt Hancock]

I agree with the first two points, including the importance of people for contact tracing as well as technology—in fact, the two working hand in hand will be the most effective approach. I also agree with the need for ethicists on this. We are all giving up a huge amount of our liberty because of social distancing, so measures to reduce social distancing through the use of data need to be considered in that context. We are making sure that that is done in a way that can provide assurance to people with concerns in that area.

On the final point, we have to make the appropriate use of both national and local resources. In testing, for instance, organising drive-through centres across the country and home testing is inevitably an issue that needs to be done centrally, and then other testing laboratories are organised locally. It is about getting the best of both worlds.

Coronavirus Bill

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons
Monday 23rd March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

If it is deemed a risk to public health, the Bill does give the potential power, through secondary legislation, to take action if that is needed.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

I mean this in a constructive way, but it does feel as though we are constantly behind the curve; we are always waiting for people not to do what we have asked them to do before we then step in and introduce more strict communications. So I beg him: will he underpin this legislation and everything else the Government are doing with a much bigger, wider, louder and more comprehensive public education campaign, because right now the message clearly is not getting through? Anyone who was looking at the coverage over the weekend of people gathering in Richmond park and elsewhere will know that it is not being heard. We need to be doing an awful lot more to be able to catch up and get ahead of this.

Coronavirus

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Tuesday 3rd March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes—I would say that this is an example of the devolved Governments and the UK Government working well together. The best example of that is the four chief medical officers. As my right hon. Friend well knows from his time as a Secretary of State, each devolved nation has its own CMO, and the forum of the four of them provides an extremely useful place to debate and then to agree, so that we can have a UK-wide answer even though some areas, such as NHS delivery, are devolved.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

In times of crisis, fear can foster discrimination. There is serious concern about reports of racism being linked to the coronavirus outbreak, with people being singled out and abused simply because of east Asian appearance, and some children being bullied. Does the Secretary of State agree that inaccurate terms such as “Wuhan coronavirus” should be avoided because they sadly reinforce racist views? Will he take steps to ensure that Government communications always use medically accurate terms? Will he ensure that the Cabinet acts to ensure that everything possible is done to stop the denigration and blaming of people in relation to this outbreak?

[Matt Hancock]

Yes—I agree with all those points.

Wuhan Coronavirus

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Tuesday 11th February 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I hope that I have demonstrated my willingness to keep the House informed. In the way that we respond to these public health emergencies, it is incredibly important that we are clear, straightforward and transparent with the public. The ability to communicate in what is inevitably a fast-moving situation is always a challenge, but I pay tribute to Members of the House for responding—and probing, of course—in a reasonable and sensible way, and to large swathes of the media, who have reported on the coronavirus outbreak in a way that is essentially guided by the science.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

In Brighton and Hove, our thoughts are with those who have tested positive in our city and those linked to them who are in isolation. The Secretary of State will know that there are real concerns locally, with another health centre closing today. People need and want more timely and accurate information—not just about washing hands and tissue use, vital though that is, but about such things as what self-isolation actually looks like. I think we need a much higher-profile public health campaign, so what steps is he taking to work across Departments—including with the Department for Education, the Department for Work and Pensions and so on—to proactively disseminate key public health messages without causing panic or compromising patient confidentiality? Will he also assure me that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office consular department is proactively offering support and assistance to people who are isolated in countries such as France?

[Matt Hancock]

The hon. Lady makes an important point, especially in relation to communicating through, for instance, the Department for Education and schools to make sure that schools get the reassurance that they need. I pay tribute to the way the hon. Lady has conducted herself, given the number of cases in her constituency, and the impact on local health services. We have taken action urgently where contact tracing has shown that it needs to be taken, and we will take that proportionate action. I am also very keen to be able to provide reassurances to people that we are taking the action that is needed and that the threat to the public remains moderate, even as we have seen the increase in numbers.

Access to Medical Cannabis

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Monday 8th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I spoke to the Home Secretary this morning about the issue, and we proposed to see it as a health matter, not a borders matter. The Border Force officers were merely following the rules, and the question is about whether the drug is licensed. If it is not licensed, but it is controlled, the question is about whether it has clinical sign-off. The truth is that the compound does have negative effects, so it must be a controlled drug. I do not support the legalisation of all cannabis. Unless one supports the legalisation of cannabis in all cases, it has to be a controlled drug, which leads us to where we are. We must get the evidence of the medical and clinical benefits that the families have emphatically explained, and I want to see this situation dealt with properly.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

Some reports suggest that even Alfie Dingley, whose case gave rise to the new legislation, probably would not be eligible for medicinal cannabis under the new regulations because they are so strict. The Health and Social Care Secretary says that 95,000 clinicians are ready and waiting to sign off prescriptions, but can he explain why they are not doing so? If it is as easy as that, surely they would be doing it, so what else will he do to look at the barriers?

[Matt Hancock]

We have ensured that all the patients who received access to medicinal cannabis on an exceptional basis before the law changed on 1 November can continue to access it. If that is not the case in any instance, I want to know about that so that we can fix it. Alfie Dingley would be eligible for these drugs if a clinician were prepared to sign off the benefits for Alfie, and such decisions must be led by clinicians. I am doing everything I can to get the evidence and second opinions in place and to ensure that the process works as well as possible. That is what I can do. What I cannot do—it would be unreasonable for any Health Secretary to do so—is overrule clinical decision making in individual cases. That would be wrong, and I do not think that any Member of this House would propose that I should do it.

Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Thursday 15th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly, not just about Africa but about progress on the India trade deal. This raising from grinding poverty of billions of people has come about because they have been able to access the world market economy. That is a vital way of fighting poverty around the world.

[Caroline Lucas]

Will the Minister explain why the Government’s leaflet on “TTIP myths” claims that a family of four would benefit by £400 a year yet makes no mention of the peer-reviewed paper from Tufts university that predicts that over 10 years the average working Briton will be more than £3,000 worse off as a result of the lower wages that TTIP will fuel? Why is that not included in his myths?

[Matthew Hancock]

The conclusion that trade raises wages and prosperity is borne out not only in the theory but in the evidence. The evidence of my lifetime has been that enhancing trade increases prosperity. That has happened in the decades for which I have been on this earth in a greater way than in any other time in history. About £1.5 billion in goods and services is traded between the US and Europe every day and 13 million jobs are linked to that. This ambitious agreement has the target, which it could meet, of adding as much as £10 billion to the UK. What does that figure mean? It is almost meaningless to all but the very largest companies.

This is what it means. Let us picture a small business owner who, five years ago, might nearly have gone under through no fault of his own thanks, in part, to the economic circumstances. Like so many smaller business owners, he did not give up and recently things have got better. The recovery might have delivered for him here, but he might want to expand and take on more staff and he might find people in America who want to be customers. He wants to sell his product to more people, but if margins are tight the prohibitive extra cost of the trade barriers means that that simply is not an option. Now, let us picture a post-TTIP world in which those costs do not exist. We have not only increased the UK’s GDP but managed to ensure that someone can trade, creating an apprenticeship or a job to fulfil those orders, and in America somebody can get a product that they could not get before. That reciprocity—that “something for something”—explains why free and fair exchange makes us all better off.

So how do we make that a reality? First, we must significantly reduce cost differences in regulations by promoting greater compatibility while maintaining high standards of health and safety and environmental protection, especially for cars, pharmaceuticals, food—which was mentioned by Members in all parts of the House—and financial services. Secondly, while tariffs are low on many goods, we must tackle the high remaining tariffs on, for instance, food, clothing and other goods that impede exports and hurt consumers. Thirdly, we must push for better market access for service companies, which make up almost three quarters of the UK economy. Where possible, we will seek a guarantee that our service companies are treated in exactly the same way as US providers and do not face any additional regulatory requirements beyond those that US businesses face. Fourthly, we must have more open and transparent public procurement opportunities. Why, for instance, should US rules require that only US steel is used in certain projects? Fifthly, we will target trade facilitation, removing some of the red tape and bureaucracy at borders, and cut unnecessary costs while speeding up the movement of goods.

This is a historic deal. I want to tackle some of the challenges and objections head on. Several Members raised concerns about regulation. In fact, TTIP provides an opportunity to take stock of existing rules on both sides of the Atlantic and to remove unnecessary duplication while ultimately making sure that we support a well-regulated market. This will be done without lowering environmental, labour or consumer safety standards. Nor will the inclusion of the ISDS provisions affect the ability of Governments to regulate. As many Members mentioned—my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset (Mr Walter) brought it up first—we already have 90 such agreements in place and there has never been a successful claim brought against the UK.

Others expressed concern about the impact on jobs, yet time and experience show that trade creates jobs and supports higher wages. This is backed up by independent assessment. The overall impact on labour markets will be positive in the EU and the US, as real wages, whether of unskilled or skilled workers, will be able to increase.

Fracking

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Tuesday 25th November 2014 Westminster Hall

[Matthew Hancock]

The regulatory approach is not one of self-regulation. There is clear statute and there are clear statutory guidelines that oversee the process. Statutory guidelines are in themselves a form of regulation.

Several hon. Members mentioned the leakage of fluids and methane from different wells that have been drilled so far. At Preese Hall, the well did not fail and the Health and Safety Executive has made it clear that it is satisfied with the steps taken by the operator to deal with the small pressure that was detected.

I pay tribute to the clear mind that the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) has on this issue, although I happen to disagree with her position, because I do not think that the best place for shale gas is underground. She said that she was disappointed that her parliamentary question went to the DWP. That happened because it was a question for the Health and Safety Executive, and the DWP is responsible for the HSE. She also referred to a point made by the former chief scientist. He said that shale gas was a problem in the absence of a climate change policy. Well, we have a climate change policy.

That brings me to a point raised by many Members, namely that exploring for shale gas—cautiously and carefully—is entirely consistent with building renewables and with having safe and secure domestic supplies. I bow to no one in my support for renewables. We have doubled the amount of energy coming from renewables—last year, 13% of our electricity came from them. The amount of investment in renewables—my right hon. Friend the Member for Lewes referred to that—demonstrates our support for them very clearly.

[Caroline Lucas]

Does the Minister not recognise that the issue that really matters is how much fossil fuel is being burned and cannot be how much more renewable energy is being created if those renewables do not replace fossil fuels? My argument with him is that at the same time as creating some renewables—for which he gets some credit, although there are not nearly enough—he is anticipating a whole new fossil fuel industry. That is incompatible—the scientists say that it is—with the kind of targets we currently have on climate change.

[Matthew Hancock]

I am afraid that a sweeping statement like, “The scientists say this or that,” undermines the hon. Lady’s case and shows that it is not based on a rigorous analysis of the facts.

I will make a couple more points in the three minutes I have left. My hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) made a clear and balanced argument, and really put his finger on the issue: until we explore, we do not know how big the opportunity is. I sometimes felt that some Members did not know whether their problem was that there was not enough shale gas or that there was too much. Instead, the question we have to answer is how much shale gas can reasonably be brought out of the ground at a commercial rate under a strong regulatory regime. We need to explore because of the support that will give for jobs for the chemical industry, which many hon. Members mentioned, and because of the direct benefit for those involved.

My hon. Friend the Member for Fylde specifically mentioned both independent monitoring, which is important, and the independent panel of experts that he has called for. That is an interesting idea and I will look at it. I am constantly on the lookout for ways to reassure people that the exploration will be carefully monitored and will be done safely. For instance, my first decision in this job was to strengthen the planning guidance on national parks, which has dealt with many of the problems that my right hon. Friend the Member for Lewes is worried about.

The hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer) asked whether the gas can be retrieved in a way that is sensible and rational. The Opposition Front-Bench spokesman’s argument was about whether we can have robust and effective regulation, and he asked for reason and analysis in the debate on this issue. That is exactly the approach we should take and is the Government’s approach.

I firmly believe that the more well-founded, well-researched scientific analysis that is put in the public domain, the more we will be able to reassure people that shale gas represents an opportunity that it is incumbent upon us as a country to look at and explore and that that exploration can be done safely. It has to be done within a strong regulatory structure, but will none the less provide an opportunity for jobs, energy security and economic benefit and, in the short term, will tackle climate change by removing other dirtier fuels from the system, within the context of a balanced energy mix. I therefore look forward to working with all hon. Members to make sure that we get this matter right, so that we can take the advantages of the exploration, which are clear, but do so in a way that mitigates some of the risks that are undoubtedly there as well.

Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Tuesday 18th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

That is terrific. After our voting performance today, I am delighted to hear that.

Amendment 6 proposes that companies disclose details of the circumstances in which, and processes by which, payment terms are amended. I have already said that the Government believe that it is poor practice to subject suppliers to unilateral and ad hoc changes to payment terms. We talked about that in Committee. I agree that greater transparency could increase accountability for this practice, and we are launching a consultation on how that transparency could be achieved. I hope that that deals with the substance of amendment 6.

Amendment 7 seeks to ensure that contracting authorities know about the historical payment performance of potential suppliers before they enter into public contracts with them. It also seeks to ensure that the companies entering into those contracts pay their own suppliers promptly. The new procurement regulations that will be made early next year will place a duty on contracting authorities to pass 30-day payment terms all the way down the public sector supply chain, from the contracting authority to the tier 1 supplier. This has been discussed here today and in Committee. I hope that Members will therefore agree that this amendment is not required in addition to the regulations.

On amendment 1, having prompt payment in procurement is dealt with in the new procurement regulations. The requirement for training in procurement is something I agree with where it is cost-effective. We have delivered that in Crossrail and I very much hope that HS2, which has been mentioned, will also deliver it. That is exactly the sort of training, alongside contracting, that is common in the private sector, but of course we have to drive value for money in the public sector, too. The Government agree that transparency and reporting in public sector procurement is vital, and Departments are already required to report on procurement expenditure with smaller businesses. As hon. Members know, that expenditure has been rising rapidly as a proportion and we are on target to hit the goals we set.

Amendment 2, also on procurement, is designed to ensure that the Minister making regulations under clause 37 is able to specify the reasons why firms may be excluded from entering into contracts. Under the existing procurement regulations a contracting authority can already take account of certain types of past behaviour by an economic operator, such as grave professional misconduct, when deciding whether it is eligible to take part in a procurement process. So that is already allowed for.

Amendment 3 states that any regulations made under clause 37 are subject to the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act, and I reassure hon. Members that contracting authorities, as public authorities, are already required to respond to FOI requests. Amendment 4 is designed to increase the level of parliamentary scrutiny by removing the reference to the negative resolution procedure. I agreed to consider, following the debate in Committee, whether it would be appropriate to change the level of parliamentary scrutiny for these regulations. The Government think that the negative resolution procedure provides the right level, but I did go away and consider the matter. We think that an affirmative process would slow down potential changes when the Government want to remain nimble in responding to the needs of small businesses.

I thank the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) for tabling amendment 91 on UK Export Finance. In our response to the consultation on these issues, the Government rejected such a proposal and set out the rationale: a prohibited list, by its very nature, would not allow the Secretary of State to take an open-minded approach in coming to a decision on whether to support an export falling within an included class. The measures already enhance the support that UK Export Finance can offer, and creating an ability to prohibit support for certain exports which are otherwise perfectly legal goes directly against that goal.

Amendment 92, again tabled by the hon. Lady, relates to the business impact target. I am delighted to debate that with her, because I believe the need for the target proposals set out in the Bill is clear. Too many businesses, particularly smaller ones, find that complying with Government regulation is the single biggest challenge to running their business. We had strong support in Committee for the target. It is only by having a competitive business environment that we can have prosperity, growth and indeed the environmental protections that she is so passionate about. I strongly support, and urge her to support, the deregulation target.

[Caroline Lucas]

Why does the Minister present regulation as always being anti-business, given that so many businesses are saying that smart regulation is good for a competitive environment?

[Matthew Hancock]

Of course, if we can achieve the regulatory objectives with a lower burden on business, we can get the best of both worlds. Almost all the examples the hon. Lady gave were about the crash and the banks, but systemically important financial institutions are excluded from the one-in, two-out approach, precisely because we need to ensure that we have regulations so that we do not repeat the messes of the previous Administration.

Very briefly, let me speak to Government new clause 5, on the independent complaints commissioner duty, which I commend to the House, and Government amendments 27 and 28, on the business impact target. I made a commitment to look at what more parliamentary scrutiny of that target there should be. We are proposing that the report should be to the House. I look forward to building on the cross-party support for these measures and to explore whether a Select Committee can take a formal role in scrutinising the target. I therefore support those provisions.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Thursday 5th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

I congratulate Cambridge on what it is doing for small business Saturday. I am sure that it will be a great success.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

T9. The Secretary of State will be aware of the mechanism in the transatlantic trade and investment partnership that will allow global corporations to sue Governments before secretive arbitration panels that bypass domestic courts. As his own Department’s research says that nothing would insulate the UK from becoming subject to costly and controversial arbitration claims in the future, will he work to ensure that investor-to-state dispute settlements are removed from that agreement?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Thursday 24th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

16. What steps he is taking to promote provision of apprenticeships.

[The Minister for Skills and Enterprise (Matthew Hancock)]

There were almost 860,000 people undertaking an apprenticeship last year; that is more than ever before. We have raised standards, introduced higher apprenticeships, made it easier for employers to engage and created the £1,500 apprenticeship grant to encourage more employers to recruit an apprentice for the first time.

[Caroline Lucas]

Will the Minister’s Department do even more—a bit of ambition here—to help young people in my constituency taking part in schemes run by City College and organisations such as Proactive and make it his policy that suppliers winning public contracts worth more than £1 million should be required to offer apprenticeship opportunities on those contracts?

[Matthew Hancock]

I would be delighted to work with the hon. Lady to promote apprenticeships in Brighton. I might point out that in her constituency the number of apprenticeship starts has doubled since 2010. We have taken action to ensure that quality is improved as well, but the more we can do to improve and widen the opportunities for people to go into apprenticeships the better.

--- Later in debate ---

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

T6. Small businesses in my constituency have been flagging up the importance of local enterprise partnerships focusing more on skills training and apprenticeships, and on the fact that that could be better promoted if all LEP boards included at least one specialist education representative. What does the Minister think of that idea, and will he consider making it a prerequisite for LEPs receiving Government funding?

[Matthew Hancock]

Unusually, I agree with both the suggestions that the hon. Lady has made. I look forward to working with her to support skills and small businesses through the LEP in Brighton.

Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Matt Hancock

Wednesday 17th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

We have been very clear about our commitment to allow borrowing and will look at how best to bring that clarity, which I am sure will include discussions with my right hon. Friend and others.

On the amendment relating to small and medium-sized enterprises, we are strongly committed to supporting SMEs and, indeed, are already providing major help to them through, for example, the business growth fund and the regional growth fund. I must declare an interest: a family business with which I am not directly connected is involved in energy efficiency matters. I expect the green investment bank already to benefit SMEs in a number of ways. For instance, some of the smaller funds that have already been set up are likely to generate investments for SMEs, provided that their targeted project size is under £30 million. However, I do not think that introducing a statutory basis would help, not least because it would increase the complexity of decision making in the bank, increase uncertainly and could increase the likelihood of judicial review. Therefore, we cannot support the amendment.

With regard to amendment 78, on the question of independent review, we think that parliamentary scrutiny and the normal corporate law requirements will be important. First, Parliament has a vital role in ensuring that the bank remains green. Secondly, Parliament will oversee the Secretary of State. Thirdly, I have no doubt that the Select Committee and the Environmental Audit Committee will look at the bank, and its accounts and reports will be placed before Parliament. However, it is important to be clear that the bank is a Companies Act company and, as such, directors owe duties to the company rather than directly to Parliament. We dealt with new clause 25 earlier in the debate on nuclear power.

Finally, the green purposes are clearly important as they relate to the essence of the green investment bank and to the company’s green objectives. Our goal is to have a broad definition of what is green. We agree that the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions is a vital objective, which is why four of the five priority sectors relate directly to it. The bank will be required to report on greenhouse gas emissions associated with its own activities and the board has agreed that the bank will also report on the greenhouse gas impacts of its own investments.

[Caroline Lucas]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way, because although we have nearly run out of time—we knew we would when the Government voted for the programme motion—I want to put clearly on the record the fact that unless the bank’s ability to borrow is included in the Bill it risks being nothing more than a fund, which would be a tragedy. I say again that if the Liberal Democrats want to vote in line with their own manifesto and their party policy, agreed scarcely a few weeks ago in Brighton, they should support amendment 89, which I would have loved to push to a vote.

[Matthew Hancock]

The Liberal Democrats and, indeed, the Conservatives are supporting this with £3 billion of Government and taxpayers’ money, and that demonstrates their commitment. However, we need a balance. The new clause would increase again the chance of judicial review. Nevertheless, while we are clear that the overall goal must be carbon emissions, we do not want to rule out other investments, some of which were mentioned by the shadow Minister, and support for wider green measures. We will therefore consider tabling a further Government amendment in the other place to clarify the point that is raised in the new clause.