Foreign Affairs and International Development

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Joan Ruddock

Tuesday 15th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Dame Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab)]

I apologise to the House for the fact that, because of a pre-arranged engagement, I will not be able to stay for the wind-ups.

I have just returned from Palestine, where I went with a number of colleagues as part of a delegation from the all-party Palestine group and the Council for Arab-British Understanding, for which I will of course make an entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. We saw much that gave rise to great concern, but time does not permit me to speak about the expansion of settlements, the land grabs, the house demolitions and the wall. Today, I want to touch on how Israeli justice is administered in Palestine.

No one disputes Israel’s right to protect its citizens and to arrest, try and imprison criminals and terrorists, but the rule of law must prevail, and I have no doubt that it does within Israel itself. However, that cannot be said to be true of justice within Palestine. Since the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory in 1967, Palestinians have been charged with offences under military law and tried in military Israeli courts. Around 4,800 Palestinians are in prison today. Until yesterday, more than a third were on hunger strike.

The mass protest began on 17 April. Two prisoners had been refusing food for 77 days and there were fears for their lives. A hunger strike is the most extreme form of non-violent protest. It is a clear sign of desperation and the all-pervasive sense that the occupation will never end and that Palestinians will never determine their own destiny.

Yesterday, as the Foreign Secretary said, the strike ended. Following Egyptian mediation, Israel delivered significant concessions. Solitary confinement is to end, and 400 prisoners from Gaza are to be allowed family visits. Significantly, those prisoners who are held without charge or trial will not have their terms automatically renewed, as was common practice. Instead, fresh evidence and information will have to be brought before a military court. In return, the prisoners have agreed that they will end any

“terrorist activity inside Israeli jails”.

I want to draw hope from that development, but it comes against a background of increasing despair. Despite the Palestinian Authority’s considerable achievements in demonstrating its preparedness for statehood, no peace talks have been reconvened.

Instead, the pressure of occupation increases, relentlessly pressing down on every aspect of Palestinian existence. Nowhere is that more poignant than in the treatment of children—those who throw stones at the wall, at passing military vehicles, at the symbols of their oppressors. For those offences, children as young as 12 are arrested, taken from their homes in night raids, interrogated with no parent or lawyer present, tried in military courts and imprisoned in Israeli jails, where their families cannot visit them.

Defence for Children International recently published research using the testimonies of more than 300 children. Harriet Sherwood has written extensively on the subject in The Guardian. However, no amount of reading can prepare anyone for the actual sight of children in the military court, or for meeting the families of those who have experienced the system.

Last week, I visited Ofer military court. The proceedings were chaotic. Several children were brought into the court at the same time. They were handcuffed together and their legs were shackled. They immediately looked around for their families and started to try to communicate with them across the courtroom. It was clear that no one took the court seriously, with deals being openly struck to plead guilty rather than mount a defence.

We saw the sentencing of one 16-year-old, a small nervous boy accused of stone throwing, car damage and making two petrol bombs. Asked by the judge whether the accusations were true, he looked utterly bewildered, and looked to his family for help. His lawyer was doing a deal and told him to say yes. He had already served four months; he got a further 20 months.

We got a further insight into the treatment of children by the military when we visited Beit Ummar, halfway between Bethlehem and Hebron. Every Saturday, the residents hold a peaceful protest near the settlement of Karmi Zur against being denied access to their agricultural land.

We met Hamda, whose husband is a member of the committee that organises the protest. She told us about the treatment of her son, Yusef, who was first arrested and imprisoned when he was 12, and has been jailed three times since. On the last occasion, the soldiers came for him at 1.30 am. They surrounded the house and banged on the door, their faces masked. They tied Yusef’s hands behind his back, made him lie face down, and then hit and kicked him. As he screamed in pain, his mother attempted to go to him, only to be hit in the chest with the butt of a gun, which fractured her rib. Yusef was blindfolded and led away. The family was forced back indoors, and the departing soldiers threw tear gas canisters into the house.

Hamda’s story is typical of those documented by DCI. Following terrifying night raids, children are taken to police stations, often on local settlements. The transfer process to the interrogation centre is often lengthy and may involve further ill treatment. At the centre, children are questioned alone and rarely informed of their rights. The interrogation techniques frequently include a mix of intimidation, threat and physical violence, with the clear purpose of obtaining a confession. Once the interrogation stage is concluded, the majority of children remain in pre-trial detention, awaiting their prosecution. The primary evidence against most children will either be their own confession or that of another child. In the overwhelming majority of cases, the children will plead guilty whether they are or not. They just want to get out of the system. The conviction rate is over 99%.

Clearly, I do not know whether Hamda’s 16-year-old son, who has been in prison for the past three weeks awaiting trial for stone throwing, did it or not, and I do not know whether Yusef, now 19, was guilty on four occasions, but I do know that the father of the family has repeatedly protested against the settlement that has taken their land and that the family feel they are being targeted. I also know that young Palestinian boys and men must feel a constant sense of humiliation and frustration.

But whether they are guilty or not, the issue is one of justice. Israel is in breach of several international conventions in the actions it is taking. DCI recommends minimum standards to ensure that no child is interrogated in the absence of a lawyer of their choice and a family member; that all interrogations are audio-visually recorded; that all evidence suspected of being obtained through ill treatment or torture be rejected by the military courts; and that all credible allegations of ill treatment and torture be thoroughly and impartially investigated and those found responsible for such abuse brought to justice.

I urge Ministers to raise these issues with their Israeli counterparts and to monitor the effect of the promise of no more automatic renewal of administrative orders when they expire.

[Caroline Lucas]

rose—

[Dame Joan Ruddock]

I will give way, although I am nearly at the end of my remarks.

[Caroline Lucas]

I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for giving way. I did not want to interrupt her, because she was making such a powerful case. What more does she think the Government can do? As someone who has campaigned for the suspension of the EU-Israel association agreement, I wanted to ask her about that, because it is one of the very few tools we have. The agreement has a human rights clause. It seems incredibly ironic that we are not using the one tool we have. Does she agree that the UK Government could do more to persuade our EU counterparts to do that?

[Dame Joan Ruddock]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her contribution, and I agree with her. I want to end on this note about what more can be done. We cannot stand aside and fail to use whatever tools are at our disposal. We have a responsibility. We are all signed up to the human rights convention, and what is going on is an absolute denial of human rights.

I urge the Government to take up these issues, but also to monitor the effect of the promise of no more automatic renewal of administrative orders when they expire. Most of the 27 Palestinian MPs in Israeli prisons are being held without charge. They should be released immediately. Yesterday, the EU Foreign Affairs Council issued a strong statement in support of Palestinians and renewed talks. I am quite sure that the Foreign Secretary contributed positively to that statement, but statements cannot address the crisis in Palestine. The international community must find the will to get peace talks started again on the two-state solution.

When we asked Hamda, the mother to whom I referred, what she thought of the future, she said, “There is no future for my sons.” We must not allow that to be the case.

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Joan Ruddock

Tuesday 1st November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Lucas]

The legal redress is to ask them to leave. If the squatters refuse to leave, they are committing a criminal offence. That is the point.

In September 160 housing lawyers wrote an open letter accusing Ministers and politicians of distorting public debate by making inaccurate statements about the law on squatting. I claim that that is exactly what is going on in the House tonight.

Even the Metropolitan police and the Association of Chief Police Officers believe that the current squatting law is sufficient and that a new one would be a waste of police resources that could impact negatively on community relations. We need to see instead efforts increased to enforce the current law properly and swiftly, including better training for police officers.

As many Opposition Members have said, many homeless people are pushed into squatting and do not do so out of choice. The appalling and often dangerous conditions in many squats are hardly attractive. Research by Crisis shows that 40% of single homeless people escape the horrors of rough sleeping by squatting, mostly in disused properties. These are the people who are most likely to be affected by the proposed new law, and who will be unnecessarily criminalised.

Often homeless people will suffer from multiple diagnoses, with a combination of mental ill health, substance abuse and other problems. The challenge is to ensure that practical measures are put in place so that people with the most complex multiple needs can be supported more effectively and squatting avoided in the first place.

[Joan Ruddock]

(Lewisham and Deptford): In my surgeries now for the first time I am seeing people who are not in the categories that the hon. Lady has just described. I am seeing people in work who are losing their accommodation; they cannot keep going in the private sector on the wages that they earn. Those people are becoming homeless without any access to other provision, and some of them will turn to squatting, and I can well understand why.

[Caroline Lucas]

That is exactly the point I was about to come on to. In my surgeries in Brighton, Pavilion we are seeing levels of homelessness rising. People are coming to me in exactly the situation that the right hon. Lady describes. According to figures from the Department of Work and Pensions, 840 people in Brighton and Hove risk losing their homes as a result of the proposed changes to the shared accommodation rate of housing benefit, making this area of Brighton one of the worst affected in the whole country. So Government efforts must focus much more on tackling the root cause of the problem, not on penalising vulnerable homeless people, including those living in buildings that have been empty for long periods and are not about to be brought back into use.

Part of the solution is investment in affordable housing and so, too, are measures to bring empty properties back into use as soon as possible. Brighton and Hove city council was named 2011 practitioner of the year by the Empty Homes Network for bringing 154 properties back into use over the past 12 months alone. The council’s amazing success is down to the hard work it has put into identifying empty private properties and its commitment to working with the owners of those properties where possible.

Insufficient work is still being done about empty properties nationally. The Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Andrew Stunell), admitted in response to my oral question that only 46 empty home management orders had been issued in the full five years since they were brought in. That and other steps to tackle the lack of affordable housing in my constituency and elsewhere must be given far more priority than playing political football with the roofs over people’s heads.

As many other Members have pointed out, the way the proposal has been brought to the House is completely unacceptable. To say that it was rushed is no exaggeration. This is not proper scrutiny; laws made in this way can only end in problems. The Government’s consultation on squatting closed only three weeks ago and I am sure I am not the only person who suspects that the 2,217 responses have not yet been fully analysed, especially as I understand that more than 96% of them expressed real concern about the impact of criminalising squatting. What is more, the option we are asked to consider today was not even included in the consultation.

In conclusion, there is no denying that some high-profile cases raise serious concerns about the need to enforce better existing laws on squatting, but criminalising vulnerable homeless people is inhumane, undemocratic and, crucially, unnecessary.

Energy Bill [Lords]

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Joan Ruddock

Tuesday 10th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Joan Ruddock]

rose—

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

rose—

Parliamentary Reform

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Joan Ruddock

Thursday 3rd February 2011 Westminster Hall

[Caroline Lucas]

I do not think that family friendliness is a myth. The way this House works ought, where possible, to give some kind of signal about what we hope for and aspire to for those who work in the rest of the country. If we rearrange the way we work, it should be possible to sit on a Tuesday morning, for example, and get much of the work done. We would not then need to sit late into Tuesday night. If hon. Members want to have meetings at that time, that is up to them, but I do not see why that process should hold everybody else hostage.

[Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab)]

There is also the consideration of people’s mental and physical health, and their general sense of well-being. Most of us function better during the reasonable hours of the day, such as those proposed by the hon. Lady, than we do very late at night. When I came to this House, 70% of sittings went till midnight or beyond. People died and were ill. We have to get a grip on the issue, and look at what will be best for most people’s health. We must also accept that some people will make choices. They will take their children to school, but they could still be here by 10.30 am or 11.30 am.

[Caroline Lucas]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her intervention. It points to the fact that one of the things that we are battling is something of a macho culture. Many people have asked, “If you’re not ready to sit till midnight and 1 o’clock in the morning, why are you doing the job?” That is not a good response.

--- Later in debate ---

[Caroline Lucas]

I completely agree, and I look forward to having another debate on exactly that subject. Let me raise a few more issues before other Members speak. Obviously, this is a well-subscribed debate.

I want to say a few words about the talking out of private Members’ Bills. The Bills, which are introduced by MPs who are not Ministers, are relegated to Fridays, the day when attendance at Westminster drops as most of us go back to our constituencies. Why not move private Members’ Bills to a mid-week slot so that they are better attended? We could then consider the implications of making Fridays a formal constituency day. I do not accept that it is beyond our wits to find adequate time for private Members’ Bills earlier in the week without displacing other legislation. Hon. Members will be well aware that our current system allows Back Benchers deliberately to waste the time allotted for debate on a private Member’s Bill in order to delay it. The vote takes place when there are likely to be far fewer Members present to support it as people leave to get to far-flung parts of the country.

The talking out of private Members’ Bills is an insult to other Members who want seriously to debate the Bill, to the Speaker and, most important, to the electorate who do not want to pay to run a debating chamber that is being mocked by its participants. There should be explicit rules that prevent the practice of talking out a Bill. The Wright Committee stated that “merely procedural devices” should not be able to obstruct private Members’ Bills, but again, we have not seen much change in that respect. That Committee also referred to the popular proposition that a maximum of three hours should be given for the Second Reading debate on any private Member’s Bill, which should be in cumulative and successive sittings, after which the question would be put to the Chamber on whether the Bill should receive Second Reading. In a sense, that would render pointless the act of filibustering. I shall take the fact that there was no intervention on that point as agreement, and I shall proceed with great speed.

[Joan Ruddock]

I support the hon. Lady. One of the easy things that we could do is make the Tuesday sitting compare with the Wednesday sitting, so that we start the day three hours earlier. We could then accommodate private Members’ Bills in the evening, which would give Members the choice on whether to stay. All House facilities would be kept open. That would be an ideal way. If Ministers, and I have been one, need to defeat a Bill, they must defeat it on the issues and its merits and not by procedural means.

[Caroline Lucas]

I completely agree.

Energy Efficiency

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Joan Ruddock

Wednesday 30th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Joan Ruddock]

Again, I have to tell the Minister that I think he is rather mistaken. The fact is that, whatever his green deal does—I shall discuss that in more detail in a moment—it depends entirely on who opts in. He may get nobody to do so. He is talking about a grandiose scheme covering millions of people, but it depends entirely on individual households deciding to opt into the scheme. The benefit of CESP, on which we expected to build further, was that it involved the whole community, local government, energy companies and partnerships in a way that allowed for an holistic approach. That is clearly what his scheme will fail to do.

Let me make a little more progress. We also introduced the CRC energy efficiency scheme—again, there has been no mention of that today—which is an extremely important energy efficiency measure. It is a new mandatory emissions trading scheme to improve energy efficiency in the large public and private sector organisations that were not otherwise covered by the climate change levy, or indeed the emissions trading scheme, which is, of course, European-based. Consequently supermarkets, banks, universities, hospitals and other organisations were all brought into an energy efficiency framework. The scheme is intended to target emissions from the energy use of those organisations, which represent no less than 10% of all UK emissions. What is the future of the CRC energy efficiency scheme? Again, the Minister has been silent on the issue. Will he guarantee that this important scheme will continue?

Let us not forget the boiler scrappage scheme, which my hon. Friend the Member for Telford (David Wright) mentioned. It was a great success. About 125,000 heating systems have been or are due to be upgraded under the scheme. It helped sustain work for installers and UK-based boiler manufacturers throughout the economic recovery, and it saved carbon. Replacing 125,000 G-rated boilers should save about 140,000 tonnes of CO₂ every year—the equivalent of taking about 45,000 cars off the road.

I have reminded the House of the big changes that Labour was making in energy efficiency and in putting the country on track to meet our climate change targets of a 34% reduction in greenhouse gases by 2020 and at least 80% by 2050.

[Caroline Lucas]

According to the Committee on Climate Change, the emission reductions achieved in the past year have been almost entirely a result of the recession, not a result of Government action. To hear the right hon. Lady talking as though the previous Government did wonderful things to achieve climate change targets beggars belief.

[Joan Ruddock]

I am so sorry. I was going to—I do—welcome the hon. Lady to the House, but her intervention is not welcome. We more than doubled—hon. Members know better than to laugh at this—our Kyoto commitment. At the last count, when I was in my place, we had seen a 21% reduction in CO₂ emissions over 1990 levels, and we were very much on target to achieve what we had set out. We introduced groundbreaking legislation that constrained us, with carbon budgets year on year—three budgets already in place and programmes that could enable us to meet those budgets.