Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Sammy Wilson

Wednesday 27th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend makes an important point that has been echoed by the business community, the hospitality industry and the food and drink industry in Northern Ireland, even just late last week. It is something we need to resolve. That is why it is important we continue the work, as part of the discussions we are having with the EU, to deliver on what we set out in our July Command Paper as a way to resolve the issues over the protocol.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

The Northern Ireland protocol is still causing significant damage in Northern Ireland and great anger for those who are impacted by it. Whether Ministers want to believe it or not, we are heading towards a constitutional crisis in Northern Ireland if the issue is not resolved. Does the Minister accept that the only reason we have checks and a debate about the European Court of Justice having a role in Northern Ireland is because Northern Ireland is now subject to EU law? Unless that issue is dealt with, the Northern Ireland protocol problems will not be resolved.

[Brandon Lewis]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point, further highlighting the issues around the European Court of Justice. At present, we have a system where EU laws are imposed on Northern Ireland without the consent of anyone in Northern Ireland—he is absolutely right. The challenges and disputes about these laws are also settled in the Court, only one of the two signatory parties to the protocol, and that obviously came before the wider trade agreement. The CJEU sits at the apex of the system. In addition to causing an imbalance in the equilibrium of east-west and north-south arrangements, we believe the oversight is not necessary. To preserve the structure and the gains that we have seen through the peace process of 23 years in Northern Ireland, we believe they must be replaced by something much more in keeping with the intentions of the Belfast/Good Friday agreement and traditional international trade agreements.

Northern Ireland Protocol

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Sammy Wilson

Wednesday 21st July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

Yes, I hope that the EU will engage in a positive way, because I think that as equal partners and equal sovereign states we are able to conduct a proper negotiation to resolve these core issues. That is in the EU’s interests, because obviously it will ensure that we can deal with its concerns about the single market, but it is also in the wider interest, to ensure that we are protecting not just the Belfast/Good Friday agreement but the sovereign integrity of the UK internal market, which I hope the EU respects as much as we respect its single market.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)[V]]

Unlike representatives of the Alliance party and the SDLP, who seem to think that their job is to be EU representatives in the House rather than to voice the concerns of their constituents who are hurt every day by the Northern Ireland protocol, I welcome the proposals that the Government have presented today, especially those relating to customs, trade barriers, checks on goods, VAT, and the ending of the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in Northern Ireland. However, in paragraph 71 the Secretary of State still refers to the need for EU law to apply in Northern Ireland. Does he recognise that that is undemocratic and will lead to future conflicts and future trade barriers. Does he accept that the introduction of the mutual enforcement of regulations would do away with the need for EU law to be applied in Northern Ireland and would therefore remove those problems and the undemocratic nature of the existing arrangements?

[Brandon Lewis]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his wider support and I share his frustration at hearing people who purport to represent UK citizens and Northern Ireland citizens in this Chamber and virtually continuing to support the EU, which is making their lives more difficult. I welcome his support for his constituents. In paragraph 71, we are clear that we think there is potential for more robust arrangements to ensure that, as the rules are developed, they take account of the implications for Northern Ireland and provide a stronger role for those in Northern Ireland. That is an important part of it and he is right to outline that. It is why the consent mechanism is so important as we move forward and why it is important that we recognise that, although the protocol is having an impact detrimentally on people across the whole community of Northern Ireland, for any form of protocol to survive it clearly has to have the consent of the whole community of Northern Ireland. At the moment, it simply does not have that. That is why, in its current format, the protocol as it is working is unsustainable.

Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Sammy Wilson

2nd reading
Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Brandon Lewis)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

If you will allow me, Madam Deputy Speaker, before I talk about the Bill I wish to congratulate our parliamentary colleague the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson) on becoming the leader of his political party. I look forward to working with him in the period ahead. I also hope, as I am sure all colleagues do, that he has a very enjoyable week, not just with the introduction to becoming leader-elect of his party, but with the very big family event, a wedding, with which we all wish him well.

The United Kingdom is a family of nations and a Union of people. We share cultural, social and economic ties that bring us together, and make us more prosperous and secure. This Government believe in upholding the constitutional integrity of this great nation. Our Union is strongest when its institutions work well, work together and deliver real change on the issues that matter. In Northern Ireland, that means we need properly functioning institutions, both in Stormont and in Westminster.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Brandon Lewis]

I will make a bit of progress, then I will give way to colleagues.

In this centenary year for Northern Ireland, today marks exactly 100 years since the opening of the first Northern Ireland Parliament, at Belfast city hall, by King George V and Queen Mary. This momentous occasion saw locally elected politicians for the first time, following the first Northern Ireland general election, so it is fitting that this Bill has its Second Reading today, of all days. The Bill will strengthen the democratic institutions of Northern Ireland and serve to build the people of Northern Ireland’s faith in their locally elected representatives in the Northern Ireland Assembly. As this House knows, the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly were restored on 11 January 2020 when all five of Northern Ireland’s main political parties came together under the New Decade, New Approach agreement. I wish to pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) and the hon. Members for Foyle (Colum Eastwood) and for North Down (Stephen Farry) for their dedication and persistence, with others, in pursuing this deal, which was a great achievement after three years of impasse.

Prior to the restoration of the institutions, there had been no functioning Executive since January 2017. The absence of a devolved Government for such an extended period had a detrimental effect on the people of Northern Ireland. We saw the first strike in the 103-year history of the Royal College of Nursing over pay and staffing levels. There was ongoing action by teaching unions, and schools were not co-operating with the inspections in a dispute over teacher pay and workload. Essential infrastructure projects, including the York Street interchange and investment in waste water infrastructure, which was at capacity in many places across Northern Ireland, could not be progressed.

I think we can all agree that a pandemic with no Executive would have been unthinkable. I was pleased therefore to see the First Minister and Deputy First Minister nominated last Thursday, following this Government’s intensive engagement with the party leaders. However, the events of last week also highlight how important it is for everyone to deliver on their commitments under the New Decade, New Approach agreement. It is disappointing to see that a way forward has not yet been found to implement all of the parts in full, which is why the Government have, for example, promised to deliver the balanced culture package that was agreed in NDNA through Parliament if it has not been taken forward by the Northern Ireland Executive by the end of September. I wish to reiterate and be very clear that our strong preference and desire is for this to be delivered in the appropriate place by the devolved institutions.

[Sammy Wilson]

I am sure that people back home will be amazed at the honeyed words of the Secretary of State. He talks about the constitutional integrity of the United Kingdom and the importance of the devolved Administration and devolved institutions, and yet he has interfered, and has just announced that he is prepared to interfere once again, in the institutions in Northern Ireland in a way in which no Secretary of State would dare to do in Scotland or Wales. Does he not accept that, for the Unionist community, this continual interference in the institutions at Stormont at the behest of Sinn Féin is not an annoyance but something that enrages people?

[Brandon Lewis]

I have to say that I do not recognise the principle on which the right hon. Gentleman outlines his point. The reality is that the UK Government are the Government of the United Kingdom. The UK Government are a co-guarantor of and signatory to the New Decade, New Approach agreement, which the parties themselves negotiated and agreed. For example, the parties agreed between themselves the cultural package, which has had a lot of attention in the past week. We have a duty to ensure that, for all the people of Northern Ireland, these things are delivered in a way that is set out and agreed by the parties. I would much rather see that delivered by the institution itself. That is why we have given time and space for the institution to be able to move things forward. It is also right that, on a range of issues, including women’s healthcare, women in Northern Ireland have access to the same good-quality healthcare as women across the United Kingdom. I make no apologies for making sure that we the United Kingdom Government are representing people across the whole of the United Kingdom.

--- Later in debate ---

[Brandon Lewis]

As I said before, we want to ensure that we put forward a package that works for all of Northern Ireland and genuinely allows it a chance to move forward. One thing that we have heard consistently from civic society is a desire to move forward. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that whatever we do has to be balanced across the whole community. As I say, I will come back to that in separate legislation in due course—we are not dealing with legacy legislation today.

[Sammy Wilson]

Just so that no one is misled by the previous intervention, will the Secretary of State confirm that no one has sought an amnesty for soldiers? All that has been asked for is that soldiers who have already had cases investigated—some up to three times—should not be trailed through the courts again for political reasons by those who are attempting to rewrite the history of the troubles.

[Brandon Lewis]

As I say, we are not dealing with legacy today, so I will resist the urge to go too much into that, but I will say that the right hon. Gentleman is correct in the sense that we have been clear that we are committed to ending the cycle of re-investigations. We also have to accept that, as we have all seen recently, the current situation is not serving anybody. It cannot be right that, as we saw in the Ballymurphy case, it has taken 50 years for people to get information. Equally, it is inappropriate and wrong to see people go through a cycle of investigations. We have committed to end that and we will do that.

Let me turn to the specifics of the Bill before the House. Clause 1 amends the Northern Ireland Act 1998 to extend the period of time available to appoint a First Minister and Deputy First Minister after the resignation of either or after the first meeting of the Assembly following an Assembly election. Currently, the period for ministerial appointments is only 14 days from the first meeting of the Assembly after an election, and seven days after the First Minister or Deputy First Minister ceases to hold office. The Bill will extend the period for filling ministerial offices to a six-week period that is automatically renewed—unless the Assembly resolves otherwise on a cross-community basis—for a maximum of three times, up to a total of 24 weeks.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Sammy Wilson

Wednesday 3rd March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

At the end of the hon. Gentleman’s question, he was talking about a period of time before the transition period ended and before the trader support service was outlined and in place. What I would say is that the trader support service now has more than 34,000 registered users. On average, calls to the service are handled in six seconds and 98% of declarations are processed within 15 minutes. That sounds like a pretty good record of success to me.

If the hon. Gentleman has some examples that are different from that, I will very happily engage with him directly if he wants to let me know, but that is a track record of success that the people involved in the trader support service should be proud of. More businesses can engage with that service and benefit from it, for the benefit of those businesses and the people of Northern Ireland.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Even with the grace periods in place, which give exemptions from many of the EU checks that will eventually be required in Northern Ireland, there has been massive disruption of trade as a result of the implementation of the protocol. Does the Secretary of State accept that if the Prime Minister’s promise and the protocol’s assurance that there will be unfettered trade between GB and Northern Ireland are to be delivered, something more than an extension of the grace periods is required? Really, there needs to be a reset or a rethinking of the agreement so that we have an alternative arrangement, such as the mutual enforcement of regulations, that would exempt Northern Ireland from being subject to EU laws and from the European Court of Justice making judgments about this part of the United Kingdom.

[Brandon Lewis]

I respect the right hon. Gentleman, who has been consistent in his views on this issue at all times. I have also been very clear: we were always determined to ensure that we were able to deliver unfettered access for Northern Ireland businesses to the rest of the United Kingdom, and we have done that. We have also been very clear that we want to ensure that free flow and flexible trade across the United Kingdom so that GB businesses can trade into Northern Ireland properly, while accepting and acknowledging the reality of the single epidemiological unit of the island of Ireland, as the sanitary and phytosanitary situation does. That has been there, as I said before, in some form or another since the 19th century. It is something that was acknowledged long ago, and I absolutely accept, as we have always outlined, that it does have an impact.

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that we have to ensure that the people of Northern Ireland can continue to enjoy products, their commercial activities and their day-to-day lives in the way that they always have done as members of and part of the United Kingdom.

Patrick Finucane: Supreme Court Judgment

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Sammy Wilson

Monday 30th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

Yes, I think this is the right next step: for the police and the police ombudsman to do their work, so that we can then assess whether we have fully completed our obligations under article 2. Once those processes have finished, we will make that assessment and take any decisions we need to, because we are determined to make sure we deliver on those obligations.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Tens of millions—indeed, hundreds of millions—of pounds have already been spent on four investigations into the murder of Pat Finucane, whose family have well-documented terrorist links. One brother died while engaged in terrorist activity and two were captured while engaged in terrorist activity. Indeed, informers have alleged that Pat Finucane himself, for one reason or another, was the solicitor of choice for IRA terrorists when they were captured. The expenditure contrasts starkly with the derisory efforts that have been made to deal with the cases of thousands of people who were killed by the IRA, which have not been investigated and for which no one has been brought to justice.

It is a great pity that the Secretary of State has not today ruled out unequivocally the expenditure of more British taxpayers’ money on further investigation some time in the future. I think that many people in Northern Ireland would have had much more comfort had he done so.

[Brandon Lewis]

I hear what the right hon. Gentleman has said. We have a core judgment that outlines that we have not yet fulfilled the article 2 obligations. We are clear that we will seek to do that. This is the next step of the process. As I say, the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the police ombudsman are independent in terms of coming to those conclusions and decisions. We will let them do their work. I agree with his point about people across Northern Ireland who have lost their lives, been injured or lost loved ones in the troubles. It is important that we all do all we can to get to the bottom of what happened. It was unacceptable and we should work together across parties, across civic society and with our partners in the Irish Government to get as much information as we can for those families, so that we can understand what happened and move forward into a period of reconciliation.

Northern Ireland Protocol: UK Legal Obligations

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Sammy Wilson

Tuesday 8th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

In large part, I agree with what the hon. Lady just outlined. We had a letter from her party and others yesterday, outlining the issues around the Good Friday agreement. The point is that this is also about ensuring that we continue to deliver on all the gains of the peace process in Northern Ireland, and ensuring that we are able to give Northern Ireland businesses the certainty that, no matter what happens over the next couple of months, at the very least in January they can be assured of having the unfettered access that we have promised. That is what we will set out in the UK internal market Bill, to ensure that Northern Ireland remains an integral part of both the customs union and the single market union of the United Kingdom.

We shall continue to have conversations with Northern Ireland businesses and parties, as we did around the Command Paper earlier this year, as the hon. Lady knows from the conversation that I had with the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

My party has voted against this withdrawal agreement. We have warned Ministers about not just the impact that the withdrawal agreement has on Northern Ireland but the foot in the door for the EU for the rest of the United Kingdom. I am pleased that we now have a Bill that—at least, according to reports—appears to deal with some of those issues. But I am disappointed to hear from the Secretary State today that we still do not know the depth and width of checks for goods coming into Northern Ireland and that we will still be left with state aid rules applying in Northern Ireland, which will stop us defending ourselves against predatory behaviour from the Irish Republic and other European countries. I want to emphasise to him that we will judge this Bill on whether it delivers on the issues that he and his Government have promised to address, in trying to undo the damage that the withdrawal agreement has caused. But ultimately, this agreement, which damages the whole of the United Kingdom—this Union splitting, economy destroying and border creating agreement—has to be changed and replaced. It can be replaced and should be replaced.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Sammy Wilson

Wednesday 18th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

I add my good wishes to my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare), who is recuperating. I have been in contact with him this morning; understandably, he continues to take a keen interest in the issues of Northern Ireland.

These are unprecedented and challenging times for many sectors. The Chancellor has announced a package of support for business and indicated further measures, if required, for the coming days. I will raise the issue of the specific group mentioned by my right hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Mr Goodwill) with the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I assure my right hon. Friend that my hon. Friend the Minister of State has been dealing with this and met that group recently, and we will continue to take this forward.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

On a recent visit to Belfast, EU officials and Michel Barnier made it quite clear to the business community that they expected a hard border in the Irish sea and, secondly, that they expected the Government to start implementing the things that need to be done to put that in place. Given that the Government have a different interpretation of the withdrawal agreement from the EU, will the Secretary of State assure us that no steps will be taken to put a physical, administrative or electronic border in the Irish sea, which would disrupt trade between Northern Ireland and Great Britain?

[Brandon Lewis]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point. I am happy to be very clear about this. We are determined to deliver on the agreements not only in the protocol, but in the Good Friday/Belfast agreement, so that we ensure there is no border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, and there will be no border between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. There will be no hard border in the Irish sea.