Northern Ireland Protocol

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Wednesday 21st July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

Yes, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. The hon. Member for Foyle (Colum Eastwood) referenced a quote of mine about the opportunities for Northern Ireland. If we just imagine the place we can get to where the protocol is working—where we can resolve the issues within the protocol—we really do have a huge economic opportunity for the people of Northern Ireland. That is the vision that we always had for the protocol and that is how it should be working. We need to get to that position.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

There is clearly a problem here that needs fixing. As the head of Marks & Spencer made clear today, the full checks that are currently being applied on M&S goods going to the Republic are resulting in some consignments being sent back because they have the wrong colour typeface on the form. Mr Norman has said that a veterinary agreement would be

“by far the best way of delivering a smooth trade flow.”

The Secretary of State just made reference to that. Given that we are, in effect, following EU food standards anyway, because they have not changed since 31 December, is that not the best way forward? I encourage the Secretary of State, if he agrees, not to be too purist about the form of such an agreement, because it would bring huge relief to so many people affected by the current fears and arrangements.

[Brandon Lewis]

The issues that companies such as Mr Norman’s have found are the very issues we want to resolve as part of the wider package. It is important to note, as we look at the Command Paper, that we want to deal with a wide range of issues. That is my point about dealing with the fundamental problems, rather than going piecemeal through the symptoms. That is why there is a range of options in there, some of which will make a veterinary agreement redundant, because it will not be required in that kind of process, potentially. That is part of the discussion we want to have with the EU to get a resolution to all these issues; it is more than just the food and chilled meats issue.

Northern Ireland Protocol

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Wednesday 10th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend makes an important and fair point. The Irish Government and their agencies work closely with the UK Government and our agencies and with the Northern Ireland Executive on a wide range of issues to the benefit of people in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, and it is important that we continue to do that. He also highlights why it is important that we continue to be very clear about the needs of the people of Northern Ireland—why the protocol was put in place—recognising the unique circumstances and the complexity of the situation in Northern Ireland, and ensuring that the relationship with the Republic of Ireland can work in a smooth and effective way. As I have said before, I absolutely recognise that the EU’s core, prime focus is on the protection of the single market. We are focused not just on protecting the businesses and people of the United Kingdom but on the core determination and commitment to deliver on the Good Friday-Belfast agreement in all of its strands.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab) [V]]

I support the aim of trying to minimise unnecessary and disruptive checks, but, on the method, can the Secretary of State tell the House under which article of the Northern Ireland protocol the Government have taken this decision, which he describes as “lawful”, to extend the grace periods? Is it article 16, which allows the UK unilaterally to take appropriate safeguard measures? If not, which other article is he citing as giving the Government the ability lawfully to take this step?

[Brandon Lewis]

As the right hon. Gentleman will be aware, the article 16 implementation was effectively made by the EU just a few weeks ago, not by the UK Government; that is what has started and led to some of the issues and tensions we have seen in the communities of Northern Ireland. I am pleased that the EU has apologised for that, but we need to recognise that it has had a lasting impact. The measures that I announced last Wednesday are lawful and consistent with the progressive and good-faith implementation of the protocol. They are temporary operational easements, introduced where additional delivery time is needed. They do not change our legal obligations as set out in the protocol—under any of its articles—and we continue to discuss our protocol implementation with the Joint Committee.

These measures are of a kind that is well precedented in the context of trade practice internationally, and they are consistent with our intention to discharge the obligations under the protocol in good faith. As I have said before, the measures are in line with the kind of flexibilities that the Irish Government put in place, and neither the right hon. Gentleman nor any other Opposition Member has yet criticised or challenged the Irish Government for what they did. We think those are sensible measures; there are flexibilities that the Irish Government thought they needed in the same way that we do with these measures.

Northern Ireland Protocol: UK Legal Obligations

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Tuesday 8th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

My right hon. Friend has spoken about these issues over the last year or so and has been clear about his position, and he is absolutely right. The UK internal market Bill will make clear what will apply in January if we cannot reach a satisfactory and mutually suitable conclusions through the specialised Joint Committee and the wider free trade agreement. It is reasonable and sensible for the Government to give that certainty and clarity to businesses and people in Northern Ireland, which in itself will ensure that we abide by and deliver on the Good Friday agreement by ensuring that there will be no borders between east and west and north and south. He is also absolutely right that Great Britain will not be subject to EU rules in a state aid area while recognising the unique position of Northern Ireland.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

I am afraid the Secretary of State’s protestations of innocence will not wash, because over the past two days—the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) addressed this question—the Government have given the impression that they may not be trusted to honour obligations they have freely entered into.

I wonder whether the Secretary of State can answer a very specific question relating to the Northern Ireland protocol, which he had some trouble answering in the summer when he appeared before the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee. Will goods moving from GB to Northern Ireland be required to complete export declarations, import declarations or entry summary declarations—yes or no?

[Brandon Lewis]

As I assume the right hon. Gentleman knows, that forms part of the discussions that are going on in the specialist committee, between us and the EU, to deal with these issues. Our view is that the regime should be very flexible, as Michel Barnier has outlined, in terms of respecting the unique position of Northern Ireland, because those goods going from GB to Northern Ireland are, by definition, very low risk, and we must ensure that we do not end up in a situation where it is presumed that 100% of the goods going from GB to Northern Ireland are what the EU would refer to as “at-risk goods.” That would be inappropriate for Northern Ireland businesses, would drive up prices in Northern Ireland and would restrict supply to Northern Ireland. That does not fit with the protocol’s outline of Northern Ireland remaining an integral part of the UK customs territory and single market.

Electoral Registration: EU Citizens

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Thursday 25th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

As my hon. Friend knows well, I often agree with and enjoy his direct, cutting-through remarks, which he has just demonstrated again on the Floor of the House, getting to the core point in such a simple way. I entirely agree with what he said, and I hope that we have a chance for this House to express the will it should have expressed on 29 March, which is to approve the withdrawal agreement, leave the EU and deliver on the referendum result.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

The Government have a responsibility to encourage the widest possible participation in the European Parliament elections, but the impression they are giving to EU citizens, “Please do not vote here, vote back home.” is doing the opposite and is, frankly, insulting to many of them who regard the UK as their home. The Minister will be aware that some electoral registration officers have sent out reminder letters and UC1 forms to EU citizens. Is it the Government’s policy that all EROs should do so, and should do so immediately?

[Brandon Lewis]

Let me correct something that the right hon. Gentleman said. I have huge respect for him and for his role. The point I have been making about EU citizens voting in their home member states is that because we were not looking to fight European elections as we wanted to leave the EU, the Government’s advice over the past year for people who wished to use their vote had been to register in their home state, because that would be the only place where there would be a European election in which they could vote. There is obviously now the potential that we will fight European elections, which is why, as I outlined in my opening remarks, the Electoral Commission has advised the electoral registration officers to identify all EU citizens who have the right to vote and notify them that they can vote in this country. If they complete a UC1, they will be able to register to vote and then vote in the European elections, should we hold them, although obviously as a Government we would rather not hold them.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Monday 3rd July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend, as ever, makes a very good point. The Prime Minister has made a fair, full and serious offer that gives European citizens, once they have settled status, the same rights as a UK citizen. I am hopeful that we and our partners across the EU will be able to reach an early agreement on that.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

The Minister talked about giving confidence to EU citizens. Given that just under 30% of applications currently being made for EU permanent residence cards are being turned down, what assurance can he give the House that the new application process set out in the White Paper will not lead to the same outcome? Will those EU citizens who are refused under that new process be required then to leave the UK?

[Brandon Lewis]

What I would say to the right hon. Gentleman is that we outlined just last week in laying the paper that we want to ensure that, when we announce the system next year, it will be a simple, clear system, probably making use of digital technology, so that the 3 million Europeans who are living and working here, contributing fantastically well to our culture and economy, are able to go through that process as swiftly as possible.

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Friday 20th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn]

That really takes the biscuit—trying to allege that somehow the Government are counting properly. The fact is that before the last election, the Prime Minister said that it is

“a disgrace that in the fifth biggest economy in the world…we have people homeless, people sleeping on the streets”.

I agree with him. It is a disgrace and people should hold him to account for his shocking record.

We shall deal with the housing crisis only if we have a comprehensive plan. We have one—the most comprehensive in a generation—in the form of the Lyons review, which we will implement from day one of a Labour Government. We will make housing a national priority for capital investment. We will work with housing associations and councils to make it easier to build council houses, building on the changes we made to the housing revenue account.

We need more firms to be building. Thirty to 40 years ago, two thirds of the homes in this country were built by small and medium-sized builders; that proportion is now less than a third. Ask small builders what the problem is and they say, “I can’t get access to land and I can’t get access to finance.” We will introduce a help to build scheme, which will allow small and medium-sized builders to get lower-cost bank lending, supported by Treasury guarantees. We will encourage local authorities and others to make more innovative use of public sector land, investing in it as equity instead of selling it to the highest bidder, because that will also help us to deliver more affordable homes.

We will use Treasury guarantees and financial incentives to support the building of garden cities, and we will ensure that every council has a local plan. The Minister of State, the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth (Brandon Lewis), said that it is not necessary for every council to have a plan, but I think it is the responsibility of every local authority in England to have a local plan. Why would someone seek to be elected to an authority, or to be its leader, if they were not going to draw up a plan for the future of their community that included how they will meet the housing needs of the people who elected them?

[The Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Brandon Lewis)]

Has the right hon. Gentleman looked through the details of the builders finance fund, which deals with this issue? Why does he not trust local councils to represent local people with a local plan driven by local people, for local people, instead of the top-down approach that failed for 13 years?

[Hilary Benn]

It is very simple: the Minister and I have a different view. I think every local authority should have a local plan. To be perfectly honest, I cannot understand why a local authority would not want a local plan, given the structure of the national planning policy framework. I think that is an obligation. The Minister and I disagree. He is entitled to his view and I am entitled to mine.

--- Later in debate ---

[Hilary Benn]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As we have heard in this debate, the problem is most acute in London. The consequences of not building sufficient affordable homes are being felt in many ways, such as in the number of people who are privately renting, in higher rents that people cannot afford and in the housing benefit bill. Ultimately, it is a self-defeating approach.

One problem is that the process of house building has been far too passive for local authorities in many parts of the country. They identify the land and then hope that someone will come along with a proposal. The Lyons review is about creating the means—the tools—for local authorities. I bet Ministers wish that they had applied their minds and come up with a report like the Lyons review.

[Brandon Lewis]

Will the right hon. Gentleman at least acknowledge that as a result of trusting local people with local and neighbourhood plans, a record number of some 250,000 homes were given planning approval last year, which is way beyond what Labour was achieving? Why does he not just trust local people like we do?

[Hilary Benn]

As the hon. Gentleman is well aware, I am a strong supporter of neighbourhood planning, and I have said so from this Dispatch Box on many occasions. He will just have to wait until his Government manage to complete more homes in one year than we managed in any one of our 13 years before he stands up and says, “Our record is better than yours”, because his record is much worse than ours.

[Brandon Lewis]

I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman being so generous with his time. To be fair, Labour finished off with 85,000 homes in its last year—the lowest level since 1923—and we have delivered some 500,000 homes in the last few years, so he really should think again.

[Hilary Benn]

The hon. Gentleman is, of course, referring to the consequences of a global recession. [Hon. Members: “Ah!”] Well, it was a global recession. The Secretary of State made specific promises about what the Government were going to do and they have comprehensively failed.

The Lyons review says to communities, “In return for taking responsibility for building the homes that you need, we will give you the powers that you need when you identify sites.” I have listened to debates in this House in which Members, particularly Government Members, have said, “We don’t understand it. We’ve identified sites, but the developers come along and say, ‘I don’t fancy building there. It’s not viable for me. I’m going to put in a planning application for that greenfield site over there.’” Up and down the country, that is happening. It is a great frustration for local authorities and citizens, because if they identify sites, the deal in return has to be that that is where the development will take place. If we are just dependent on the big house builders, we will never get to the figures that we need and it will undermine the public consent that, we all agree, is fundamental to making progress on house building.

We must say to local authorities, “Here’s a range of tools that you can use to ensure that the kind of homes you want get built in the places you have identified and go to the people who need them.” That is why the one other thing that we will do is to give local authorities a planning power to say that in housing growth areas a percentage of the new homes that are built for sale should, in the first instance, be reserved for local first-time buyers. If we do that, we will turn quite a few nimbys into yimbys, because they will realise that their son or daughter, or their neighbour’s son or daughter, will have the chance to get one of those houses.

If we are to get to the target that we have set of 200,000 homes a year by 2020—I say to Ministers that surely their experience over the past four years has taught them that we will not do it by trying to put a bit more petrol into the old house building engine and cranking it up—there has to be a fundamental change in the way the house building market works.

Let me turn to economic evolution and growth. I acknowledge what the Secretary of State has done with deals for some cities—it would be churlish not to—but there is an unanswered question: if he and the Government are so committed to devolution, why has progress been so slow, patchy and piecemeal? Manchester aside, why have such limited powers been offered to a small number of large cities. Why, as the Local Government Chronicle put it yesterday, has DCLG

“almost seemed peripheral, a bystander to the devolution debate”?

Why has Lord Kerslake, now free from the responsibilities of office, said—again in the Local Government Chronicle—that

“it was only well into its fourth year that the government woke up to the benefits of devolution”?

I suspect there is plenty more where that came from. Why has the right hon. Gentleman stepped aside while the Chancellor and Deputy Prime Minister have had a row about whether powers can be devolved and whether we need a metro mayor? Perhaps he is not actually in charge of the policy.

What about the great counties of England? Until the Chancellor got up on Wednesday and finally adopted Labour’s policy on 100% retention of business rate income growth, which he said he would apply to Cambridge and Greater Manchester, the counties of England had frankly been ignored. The Secretary of State will be only too well aware of how angry his colleagues in the counties have been at his failure to stand up for them. It was noticeable last year that at the meeting of the County Councils Network—the great annual gathering of county councils—not a single DCLG Commons Minister could manage to clear their diaries to turn up to address what was mainly their party colleagues.

It is not a very long journey to Marlow—about an hour in the ministerial car—and I think the real reason is what happened to the Secretary of State the previous year at the 2013 conference. LocalGov.co.uk reported it thus:

“Mr Pickles received a hostile reception at the conference…During questions, the Tory leader of Leicestershire, CC Nick Rushton, asked the secretary of state: ‘Why are you always so rude to us?—

I am sure the Secretary of State remembers that well—

“It’s about time you spoke up for us in Government.’”

I sympathise with the Secretary of State because with friends like that who needs us on the Opposition Benches? It is the unfairness that makes people angry. The truth is that his Conservative colleagues in the counties know that they will get a better deal from a Labour Government than they have got from the Tory Government, and the same is true for the city regions.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Monday 16th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Brandon Lewis)]

In the true spirit of your comments, Mr Speaker, I entirely support and congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham), who has campaigned hard on this issue with a lot of people who have done a lot of work locally.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

Before the last election, the then Leader of the Opposition said:

“Any Cabinet minister...who comes to me and says ‘here are my plans and they involve front line reductions’ will be sent back to their department to go away and think again.”

Yet we now know that the social care front line has been cut, including the simple act of giving a hot meal to elderly people living at home alone, with 220,000 fewer elderly people receiving meals on wheels compared with 2010, when that promise was made. I have a very simple question for the Secretary of State: why is that?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Monday 10th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Brandon Lewis)]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that landfill is at the bottom of the waste hierarchy, below incineration, energy recovery and recycling. Updated planning policy on waste from October this year continues the focus of moving waste up the hierarchy by moving away from traditional landfill towards more sustainable options.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

I join the Secretary of State in condemning anti-Semitic abuse. I very much welcome the action he has taken today.

Last year, the Secretary of State decided to extend permitted development rights so that offices could be converted to residential use without requiring planning permission. What assessment has he made of the impact of his change on the availability of office space, in particular for small and start-up businesses that are so important to our economy?

Local Government Finance

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Wednesday 18th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government if he will make a statement on the provisional local government finance settlement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Brandon Lewis)]

My Department has today published the provisional financial settlement for English local authorities for 2014-15 and 2015-16. The technical details are outlined in a written statement, and associated documents have been placed in the Library and in the Vote Office. This is effectively the second year of a settlement announced last year. We have been consulting over the summer on the detail of the statement, so it should not come as a surprise to any local authority.

This year’s settlement is fair to all parts of the country—rural or urban, district or county, city or shire—meaning that councils can deliver sensible savings while protecting front-line services. Every bit of the public sector needs to do its bit to pay off Labour’s deficit, including local government, which, we should remember, accounts for a quarter of all public spending.

Opinion polls clearly suggest that satisfaction with local government is either constant or even improved compared with 2010, despite the need for councils to make savings to tackle that deficit. Today’s fair funding deal arms councils with a significant spending power average of £2,089 per household.

The autumn statement protected local authorities from further spending reductions for 2014-2015 and 2015-16. Overall, the average spending power reduction for councils in 2014-15 is expected to be limited to just 2.9% per household. Extra funding has been provided for sparse rural areas. With English councils spending £117 billion this year, councils must continue to focus on cutting waste and making sensible savings. There is significant scope for councils to merge back-office services or do more joint working: get more for less and they will do better with their £60 billion a year procurement budget; tackle £2 billion of local fraud; reduce the £2 billion of lost money in council tax arrears or use their record £19 billion of reserves; and get better value for money from their billions in property assets.

Local authorities should be looking to protect their residents and give them help with the cost of living. Extra funding is on offer to councils to freeze council tax for a fourth year in a row. The Government have provided up to £550 million for the next two years, which allows for a fourth year of freeze worth up to £718 for the average bill payer, with more savings to come next year. I am proud to be part of a Government that have allowed that freeze in council tax. In contrast, the previous Labour Government doubled council tax for hard-working people.

From April next year, funding for the 2011-12 and 2013-14 freezes will be in the main local government settlement total for future years. Funding for the next two freeze years will also be built into the spending review baseline, which will give maximum possible certainty for councils that the extra funding for freezing council tax will remain available without a cliff-edge effect. The Government are clearing up the mess left by the previous Labour Government, paying off Labour’s deficit and helping hard-working people with the cost of living. Councils are doing well and playing their part.

[Hilary Benn]

Given the scale of the cuts affecting local authorities, the Minister really should have made an oral statement today instead of having to be dragged to the House. Will he explain why the further cut of, supposedly, 10% in real terms—announced by the Chancellor in the spending round for 2015-16—is actually a 15% real cut to the settlement funding assessment? Why are the most disadvantaged communities once again the hardest hit? Will he confirm that by 2017 the city of Liverpool, the most deprived local authority in the country, will have lost 62% of the Government grant it was receiving in 2010? How on earth can he justify that? As the Audit Commission recently reported:

“Councils serving the most deprived areas have seen the largest reductions in funding relative to spending.”

Tough times do indeed require tough decisions, but this Government, as they have shown time and again, from the bedroom tax to the top rate of tax and local government funding, take most from those who have least. That is unfair and unjust.

Despite Government talk of a freeze, many councils, including Tory authority after Tory authority, will increase the council tax next year, including for residents who work but are on the lowest incomes and will lose council tax benefit. Why is the Minister top-slicing money from council funding that is based on need, and putting it into the so-called “new homes bonus” in areas where new homes would have been built anyway? Does he not realise that hundreds of thousands of vulnerable people have already been denied social care due to cuts in council funding, while the Government have wasted money on their expensive and failed reorganisation of the NHS? Is it not the case that even more people will lose out because of what has been announced today?

Another week, another Minister in denial—when will the Government realise that the future set out today means that more and more councils in the years ahead will simply not be able to maintain the services on which so many people rely?

[Brandon Lewis]

I am somewhat surprised; I had been expecting the right hon. Gentleman to outline for the first time these several years exactly where Labour’s promised £52 billion of cuts would come from.

In reality, we have heard nothing new this morning. This statement comes after last year’s statement set out a two-year settlement for local authorities. In fact, whereas more than 3% had been predicted, this year local authorities will get a 2.9% reduction, falling to below 2% next year. So it is a good news day for local government. [Interruption.] The right hon. Gentleman’s comments did not match up with the facts of life. The Audit Commission’s recent report outlined how local authorities were coping well with the changes. [Interruption.]

Local Audit and Accountability Bill [Lords]

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Tuesday 17th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

The Bill certainly has generated a great deal of debate—more, I suspect, than either the Minister or others who thought it was just about audit might have anticipated. That is in no small measure, as the Minister has just acknowledged, due to the skill and forensic arguments put forward by my hon. Friend the Member for Corby (Andy Sawford), who did sterling work in Committee, as he has done today, ably assisted by my hon. Friend the Member for City of Durham (Roberta Blackman-Woods) and also my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Chris Williamson), from whom we heard today.

I join the Minister in expressing thanks to all Members who served on the Bill Committee, all those who gave evidence to the ad hoc Joint Committee, and my colleagues the noble Lords McKenzie and Beecham for the work they did in scrutinising the Bill in another place.

As we know, this is a Bill that arises from a very early decision that the Secretary of State took, which was to abolish the Audit Commission. When we heard from him on Second Reading, he was convinced that it was the right thing to do. We all recognise that the commission is going, but only time will tell whether it was right for the Secretary of State not to take the advice of the noble Lord Heseltine, who originally introduced the Audit Commission because he thought it was wrong for local government to appoint the people who audit it.

What is striking about the Bill, however, is that the quality of some of the content we have debated at length has not benefited from the length of time it has taken the Government to bring it forward, in part because of the complexity of what has been removed and therefore the need to construct arrangements to replace it. I acknowledge that the Government moved on the issue of joint procurement, and I am grateful to the Minister for listening to the arguments made by local government and by my hon. Friend the Member for Corby, but I am genuinely sorry that the Minister either has not wanted to get the arguments that we made or has not properly understood the consequences of the Bill failing to anticipate the new world in which local authorities have to work. That is particularly surprising, given that Ministers often lecture local government about the need to make changes.

On access to information, the amendments that we argued for were all about the public’s right to know. As we are aware, the Audit Commission is covered by the Freedom of Information Act; private auditors in general are not. As councils change the way in which they work, it is very important that the public have the right to understand what is happening and have access to information. Listening to the Minister this afternoon, the more he protested that our amendment was not necessary, the more puzzled I became. Then there was a moment of what I hope was conversion. I am delighted by what he had to say when pressed by my hon. Friends. We will hold him to what he said about ensuring that the public has exactly the same right as it currently has using the Freedom of Information Act to get access to information that auditors and private companies have about contracts that they are undertaking on behalf of local authorities.

I am very sorry that the Government have not made provision for auditing that will be fit for purpose for the years ahead. The Minister did not do justice to the argument that we advanced. We did not suggest that the Bill prevents local authorities from working together with each other or with central Government—for example, through the troubled families initiative. That is not our argument. Our argument is that when the Whitehall and the local pound are brought together to provide services at a local level, there will continue to be different audit arrangements.

I say to the Minister, and I hope he will reflect on it even when the Bill has become an Act, that that does not make sense. An audit, especially when the Bill gives us a chance to set it on a new footing, must take account of the changing way in which public money is spent, particularly as community budgets develop. It does not make sense if there is a community budget for different bodies, with the NAO trying to chase the Whitehall pound down the road and the local authority auditor looking at the local pound.

One clause that was dissected and then comprehensively savaged by my hon. Friend the Member for Corby, both in Committee and earlier today, is clause 39, which deals with the code of practice for local authority publicity. I was interested to hear that the Liberal Democrats apparently could not bring themselves to vote for it in Committee, because they were absent when it was discussed. I do not blame them, because they are right to be embarrassed by what is a most illiberal piece of legislation.

The hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke) described that provision as a sledgehammer. If I may coin a new phrase, I think that it is a sledgehammer of a blunderbuss, and it has been constructed on the back of a lot of ministerial complaining about Pravda-like publications. I have not read quite so many local authority publications since Second Reading, but I have still found no figures on tractor production, which I continue to be disappointed about.

Basically, no evidence has been advanced on local authority publications. It is no good the Minister in the other place saying, “I could give you the names of 12 authorities, but I don’t think that would be helpful.” We have heard the Minister give one example, that of “East End Life”. The really damning revelation is that for all the complaints, concerns and denunciations of breaches of the code, he tries to suggest that what the Bill offers is true localism, and in three years the Government have not even contacted a single local authority, which is astounding. They could not be bothered to write a letter to a single authority, but they could be bothered to draft a shoddy clause that will give the Secretary of State the right to control every single local council publication, every website, leaflet and bit of content—the lot.

The Secretary of State, if he takes offence, will be able to tell councils, “You’re not allowed to refer to the bedroom tax as the bedroom tax. You have to call it something else.” If he feels like it, he will be able to stop councils commenting on spending cuts and the way they affect the local authority area. He could stop them commenting on airports, HS2 or NHS changes. He can even tell local parish councils that they cannot produce 12 double-sided A4 sheets a year. He will be able to do anything he wants. Censors the world over might think that is a jolly good clause, but the House was unconvinced.

[Brandon Lewis]

I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman giving way at this stage, when I would not normally seek to intervene, but I just want to point out gently that parish councils can still produce 12 such publications a year—one a month.

[Hilary Benn]

Absolutely, but the problem with the clause is that they cannot publish any more than that. If they want to bring out a special edition on their Christmas celebrations, for example, having had their 12, that would not be allowed, because the Secretary of State is taking the power to prevent that.

The clause states that the Secretary of State can exercise all those powers regardless of whether he thinks that the local authority is complying with the code of conduct, which is extraordinary. I read with great care the arguments that the Minister tried to advance in Committee, but I am afraid that I found none that justified that. The truth is that Ministers ought to be really careful with the great big blue pencil they are about to get hold of.

On referendums and levying bodies, I must say that I was unconvinced by the Minister’s arguments in relation to the Leeds city region deal, described by his ministerial colleagues as a watershed moment, which was signed before the new policy was announced. The Minister has still not answered the question I asked the Secretary of State on Second Reading, and which was asked again today by my hon. Friend the Member for Corby, so I will put it slightly differently.

The city deal was signed towards the end of the year and the announcement of the new policy on referendums and levying bodies was announced at the beginning of the new year. Knowing how long it takes to decide on these things in government, I think that it is inconceivable that Ministers were not privately discussing changing the rules at the very moment when they were discussing the Leeds city region deal. If that is the case—I will give way to the Minister on this point—why did he not tell the people they were negotiating with? He does not want to intervene, so for the third time we have had no answer to the question, and some people will draw the conclusion that they do not want to answer it.

The Minister will have seen the letter mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Corby that the Leeds city region sent to the Deputy Prime Minister on 6 December asking the Government to solve the problem they created by changing the rules after the agreement was signed. The Minister knows very well how important the transport infrastructure fund is to the Leeds city region deal; indeed, it is the main thing that the city region got out of city deals, which, as he knows, I support. The letter is signed not only by the chair of the combined city region which is to become an authority—the leader of Leeds city council—but by the chair of the local LEP. They are not persuaded by the Minister’s arguments, because they say:

“As it stands, the Local Audit and Accountability Bill makes the Fund impossible to deliver.”

I listened carefully to what the Minister said, and I do not know whether there is a chink of light there, but he has a responsibility to sort this out.

Apart from doing justice to the Leeds city region, there is another argument for why the Minister has a responsibility to deal with this. If the Government go back on a done deal, which is what has happened in this case, they undermine confidence in the city deal process, undermine the certainty on which financial planning has to be based, and undermine the confidence of those who will negotiate with them in future, who will ask themselves, “Hey, look what happened to the Leeds city region—how do we know they aren’t going to change the rules for us after we’ve signed our names in ink on a piece of paper?” It needs to be sorted out.

As the Minister knows, we support the other changes that were made in this House on parish polls and councils allowing recording and videoing of council and committee meetings. In this day and age, with the very big changes in technology that enable every citizen to become a reporter, all of us in this House, whichever side we sit on, want more people to take an interest in what our local authorities are doing, by going to meetings and reporting them to spread the news and make sure that more people can see what is going on.

We will not oppose the Bill given that provision has to be made for a replacement for the Audit Commission, which is on its way out, but in some respects it is a lost opportunity. For all the words that the Secretary of State, in particular, is fond of saying about localism, once again this Bill proves that the longer he is in office the more he cannot resist using legislation to tell local councils what to do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Monday 25th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State has rightly talked about the importance of local authorities keeping down council tax in these tough times for many people—although he has imposed an increase on those on the very lowest incomes—but when it comes to business rates, which he set, he pursues a completely different policy. In the past two years, he has been quite happy to see struggling businesses hit by increases in business rates of 5.6% and 2.7%. What does the Minister say to owners of small businesses who feel that that is both damaging and unfair?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Brandon Lewis)]

The right hon. Gentleman’s question gives me a chance once again to re-establish the fact that the Government have made no real-terms increase in business rates; there has only been an inflationary change. Moreover, we have helped small businesses by trebling the small business rate relief from £300 million to £900 million a year.

[Hilary Benn]

That answer will not reassure the owners of small businesses. The Minister talks casually about an increase in line with inflation, but the takings of many of those businesses have not gone up in line with inflation because of the state of the economy. They will also not be reassured because, as things stand, next April will see a further rise of 3.2%. Since he has not been able to tell the House what further help he will give to small businesses, is it not time that the Government looked at our plan, which is a commitment to cut and then freeze business rates over a two-year period? That could help 1.5 million small businesses, which is many more than he is helping at the moment, and save them an average of £450.

[Brandon Lewis]

I appreciate the fact that the Opposition are talking about business rates, but they have not mentioned that they plan to put up corporation tax, which this Government have reduced to its lowest level to make us more competitive than at any time under Labour. The right hon. Gentleman also still misses the point. Small businesses benefit from small business rate relief, which we trebled from £300 million under Labour to £900 million. Furthermore, a third of a million businesses do not pay business rates under this Government and have not seen the increase that he outlined.

Local Audit and Accountability Bill [Lords]

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Monday 28th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

As a general matter of principle, I am happy to meet anybody who wants to talk about any part of my brief. I obviously extend that invitation to Transparency International UK.

On the fairness of council tax referendums, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole rightly outlined the anger of some areas and residents when they are faced with claims of a council tax freeze but receive spiralling bills from their authority. Clause 39 specifically addresses that—it ensures that claims of a freeze are based on the bill that hits doormats rather than any half-measures.

My hon. Friend the Member for Meon Valley (George Hollingbery), who has a background in local government, spoke of his wide experience of comprehensive area assessments and gave a great outline of exactly why we need a firm ending of the Audit Commission, so there is no chance of it coming back in the format we have experienced. He touched on auditor appointments, on enforcing the publicity code, which I will deal with later, and on council tax referendums and levying bodies. He suggested a range of interesting opportunities to ensure that referendums are dealt with in a proper and fair manner for the authorities. I look forward to taking his suggestions forward in Committee.

Let me be clear why the Government have decided to proceed with the final abolition of the Audit Commission. The House has heard how our reforms to local audit will result in a more efficient audit system, with an estimated £1.2 billion of savings—I would not want to disappoint the hon. Member for Corby by not mentioning the £1.2 billion of savings. That is exactly why it is important to push forward and embed that to stop any chance of future Audit Commission mission creep.

The reforms are not just about saving money. They are about the Government’s drive to decentralise power and responsibility to local bodies, and giving local people better tools to hold bodies to account. By cutting out the middleman, local bodies will no longer be forced to foot the bill for Audit Commission costs. They will know exactly what they are paying for in their audits. Local bodies will be required to publish information about their auditor appointments and any public interest reports they receive from the auditor. People will therefore be able to find that information locally, rather than having to go to a remote central body.

The reforms improve local accountability. As many hon. Members, including Opposition Members, have said, the Audit Commission had lost its way, forcing councils to focus on Audit Commission priorities rather than priorities that matter to local residents. My hon. Friend the Member for Meon Valley outlined some of those. As a councillor, I remember sitting in meetings when officers told us what we should do—it was often to do with waste collection. The suggestions were not made because they were right for our residents, but because they ticked a box to please the Audit Commission, and the Government would punish us further down the line if we did not take that action. The Government’s impact assessment estimates that the cost to local authorities of complying with the CAA was around £25 million per year—that money could be better spent on other things that residents want and need and deserve to have delivered.

Let me reassure hon. Members who are concerned that the quality of audit will suffer. The Government are committed to ensuring that that does not happen. Private audit firms have long had a role to play in auditing public bodies. As I have said, the Audit Commission has contracted out some 30% of its audit contracts to private audit firms. Last year’s outsourcing exercise demonstrated that public audit can be carried out to the same high level but at a much lower cost to the taxpayer.

The Bill contains robust mechanisms to safeguard auditor independence. The work of the auditors remains largely unchanged and auditors will still be required to use their professional judgment to decide whether to make a report in the public interest if they believe something is amiss. To enshrine that important principle, the Bill allows auditors to recover costs for their time in making a public interest report or advisory notice. By amending existing secondary legislation, we will ensure that whistleblowers can make disclosures to local auditors directly or to the National Audit Office.

Many hon. Members have mentioned the publicity code. I want to make one point clearly at the outset: there is no change to the code. The measures contribute to the Government’s commitment to localism rather than run counter it. Given that the code is not changing, I am somewhat surprised that any hon. Member has a problem with it being put into statutory form. Opposition Members have complained that the Government have not enforced the voluntary code. By putting it in statute, we can make sure that it is enforced to ensure that taxpayers’ money is spent appropriately and properly, and not for political ends.

There have been exaggerated claims that provisions on the code will lead to central Government clamping down on, for instance, HS2 campaigning, which has been mentioned. That is nonsense. Councillors are free to campaign on behalf of their constituents. Indeed, the Government legislated in the Localism Act 2011 to give councillors the freedom to campaign. If any challenge is balanced and factually accurate, it will not contravene the code, unlike some publications. For example, Nottingham city council’s website seems unusually to mirror the Nottingham Labour party’s website. Residents might want to question expenditure on that sort of thing. If anything, the publicity code defends council communications from political interference and propaganda-pushing, as was outlined by my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst, who gave a range of examples.

The Government have no intention of monitoring or censoring communications, but it is right for us to act when concerns are expressed that local authorities are in breach of a code approved by Parliament. It is certainly right to act when authorities use taxpayers’ money to fund publicity for political purposes.

[Hilary Benn]

Where is the evidence?

[Brandon Lewis]

The right hon. Gentleman keeps asking for evidence, but my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst has given it to him. In addition, I suggest the right hon. Gentleman compare Leeds city council’s website with the Labour party website.

The Government are aware of the burden that placing statutory notices in newspapers can place on local authorities, and that some authorities believe there are cheaper and more effective ways of informing local people on issues that affect their lives. The Secretary of State has been clear that, in the internet age, commercial newspapers should expect, over time, less state advertising as more information is syndicated online for free. Local papers need to develop new business models to fit the 21st century, particularly as it does not make sense to cross-subsidise one industry with fees from another. However, that will take time.

The Government’s council tax referendum measure will give protection against large increases in taxes raised by levying authorities such as waste disposal, integrated transport and pension authorities. Some say that the measure is unfair. I dealt with that earlier in my speech, but let us be clear that local authorities and levying bodies can work together and have done so, both under the old Government capping procedure, and more recently through the referendum principle. Councils have long worked together to agree council tax levels. That was always the case under previous systems.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Monday 4th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. Like the two Labour authorities that I have just mentioned, that is another that is not putting its local people first. It really needs to look at its schemes again and put local people first.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

In December, the Secretary of State tried to justify his plan to increase council tax bills for people on low incomes, including his own constituents. He assured the House that he had intervened to

“protect people and ensure that nobody has to pay more than 8.5%.”—[Official Report, 17 December 2012; Vol. 555, c. 559.]

Is it still the case that no one in Brentwood will have to pay more than 8.5%?

[Brandon Lewis]

The right hon. Gentleman gives me another chance to highlight that what we are doing is taking control of a situation in which council tax doubled under the last Government and council tax benefits rose from around £2 billion to £4.5 billion. That benefit has to be got under control as part of deficit reduction, and I wonder whether it would be part of the £52 billion of cuts from his own Government’s proposals that he has not yet even outlined.

[Hilary Benn]

Once again, we have no answer to a straight, factual question. The Minister is in denial. The answer is 20% in Brentwood. Why is that? It is because councils up and down the country, Tory and Labour, have been put in an impossible position by Ministers. Is it not the truth that

“the very lowest paid are going to be in a very difficult place”?

Those are not my words but those of the Conservative leader of the Local Government Association. While the Secretary of State has been travelling up and down the country lecturing councils about not increasing their council tax, he has all along been masterminding a council tax increase for those who can least afford it. Does he not understand that the public will see that happening in the very same month that the top rate of tax is cut, and that they will say, “This is unfair”?

[Brandon Lewis]

I am afraid that the right hon. Gentleman oversimplifies things. Local authorities have, as we have said, the right to look at their local communities and design schemes that they think are right for them, in contrast to the central diktat that the last Government used to impose. The authority that he has mentioned in Brentwood is a good example, because what he did not mention was the way it had changed the taper to ensure that it will pay to work.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Monday 12th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Brandon Lewis)]

I understand the concerns of businesses—particularly small businesses—and ratepayers who are waiting for appeals to be settled by the Valuation Office. My Department is talking to the office, and we expect to resolve more than 400,000 appeals over 24 months to catch up with the backlog. The delay in the revaluation scheme will actually aid that process.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

After the Secretary of State’s shambolic performance in last week’s debate on the Growth and Infrastructure Bill, it is clear that he cannot even tell his Hackney from his Haringey. Why did he use out-of-date figures in his ministerial correction the following day when naming Haringey as the worst planning authority, when in the year to June the council that actually had the worst record on deciding major developments within 13 weeks—according to his Department’s figures—was Kensington and Chelsea; or is he just determined to blame a Labour council, as long as it begins with the letter H?

Local Government Finance

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Hilary Benn

Wednesday 8th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn]

My right hon. Friend argues the case for his constituents with great force and vigour, and he is absolutely right. This is fundamentally unfair. The reason it is happening—the Minister was remarkably reluctant to admit the truth—is that councils in deprived urban areas rely to a much greater extent than councils in more affluent areas on central grants from the Treasury, which have been cut significantly.

[Brandon Lewis]

Is it not important to make sure we understand the starting point for the councils the right hon. Gentleman mentioned? For example, the figure for a council such as Richmond was something like £150, but he is comparing it with that for Hackney, which was at £967 in the first place.

[Hilary Benn]

Of course there is a difference because there is much greater deprivation in Hackney than in Richmond. I should have thought even the hon. Gentleman would be able to work that out for himself.