Sue Gray Report

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Wednesday 25th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend very much. All I can say is that those matters are for the relevant forces.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

I do not believe that the Prime Minister has any credibility left, because my constituents tell me that they do not believe what he says. So I want to ask the Prime Minister about what I think is the bare minimum in this situation: cleaning staff and security staff in No. 10 were treated with a lack of respect, so has he personally apologised to them?

[The Prime Minister]

This is the first I have seen of the detailed criticisms of civil servants for that abuse. I have said that I think it is intolerable and I will make sure that staff, custodians and cleaners who were treated disrespectfully get a proper apology—

[Alison McGovern]

From you?

[The Prime Minister]

I have apologised to them today already from this Dispatch Box.

Ukraine

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Yes. I thank my hon. Friend for everything that he is doing in the Council of Europe. We should stand by democratic Ukrainian politicians. We all know them; we have all met them. All they want to do is live in peace and freedom, and we should work together to ensure that they can.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

Many Syrians will know that the continuation of Putin’s aggression was not only predictable, but predicted on both sides of this House. Does the Prime Minister agree that, as was true in relation to Syria, the only response to aggression is co-ordinated international resolve matched by every possible action at home, including each of the actions explained by the Leader of the Opposition?

[The Prime Minister]

I think the lesson from Syria is that it is not possible to will the end of a regime without being willing to will the means. That is what this Government are prepared to do, and if that is what the Leader of the Opposition is now committing Labour to, so much the better.

COP26

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Monday 15th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Yes. I congratulate my hon. Friend on what he is doing to support low-carbon industries across the north-east. That has immense potential throughout the country—he is quite right.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

I noticed that the Prime Minister mentioned Aristotle in his statement, so could he explain how breaking his own manifesto promise to the poorest people in the world, those worst affected by climate change, could possibly be consistent with the actions of the virtuous person?

[The Prime Minister]

Because we have not. What we are doing is continuing—[Interruption.] Opposition Members must really retract this, because what we are doing is not only committing £11.6 billion, which I announced and which was a doubling of the previous commitment, but adding, as soon as we can, as soon as the numbers will allow us, another £1 billion, taking it to £12.6 billion. That is one of the biggest commitments to tackling climate change around the world of any country in the world and the hon. Member should be proud of it.

Health and Social Care

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Tuesday 7th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

With the PFI contracts and the endless borrowing that Labour instituted, hospitals up and down the country are paying the price for the approach advocated by the last Labour Government—the completely financially reckless and incompetent approach. That is the opposite of what this Government are doing. We are taking the fiscally responsible, reasonable and right approach to fixing this problem.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister said at the Dispatch Box, though it is not in the printed copy of his speech, that the NHS backlog that we face will get worse before it gets better. How much worse?

[The Prime Minister]

It would be a great thing if the Labour party would support what we are doing. With the package we have brought forward, we will be able to fix that backlog even faster. If the hon. Member or the right hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer), the leader of the Labour party—[Interruption.] By the way, we did not hear from him whether he is going to vote for these proposals or not: as usual, a great vacuum at the heart of the Labour party. Does he actually support these proposals—yes or no? That is what I would like to know.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Wednesday 10th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Yes, indeed. I am told that the boulevard of light on Lord Street rivals the Champs-Élysées itself, and I will certainly keep my hon. Friend’s invitation in mind.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

In this House, we all know the importance of the people who have looked after our vulnerable loved ones over the past year when we have been unable to do so, so will the Prime Minister explain to me why in this country we have 375,000 care workers on zero-hours contracts?

[The Prime Minister]

I am proud of what the Government have done to increase the wages of care workers across the country, with record increases in the living wage. This country is unlike most other countries in the world in the speed with which we have vaccinated care home workers and their elderly charges.

Transport Infrastructure

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Tuesday 11th February 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Indeed. I thank my hon. Friend for her support. You can go to the midlands and see the investment already flooding in as a result of HS2. Let us turbo-charge that now.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

It is kind of funny, in a way, to see the Prime Minister come here to gleefully re-announce a project that he himself and his office tried to put a stop to. But while he is in train set-building mode, can I draw his attention to the Wrexham to Bidston line that would connect north Wales and Liverpool? Will he put some extra investment in there so that we can speed up improvements?

[The Prime Minister]

We will certainly examine very carefully the proposal that the hon. Lady makes, and whether it qualifies under our £1.5 billion Beeching plan.

Brexit Negotiations

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Thursday 3rd October 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Yes. Not only that, but I can confirm that there will be no checks, as it were, from NI to GB. I think that is very important for the House to understand.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister said some moments ago that the history of referendums in this country was not good, but may I remind him that by 71% the Good Friday agreement was passed by a referendum?

I return the Prime Minister to the detail of his statement today. On page 3, he refers to the regulatory zone for Northern Ireland, and he says that,

“the Assembly will vote again every four years—and if consent were withheld, these arrangements would then lapse after one year.”

Lapse back to what?

[The Prime Minister]

Obviously, the default position is that Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and part of the UK legal order and part of the UK customs territory, and it will remain part of the UK’s customs territory under any circumstances. What we are proposing is alignment on agrifoods and also on industrial goods. That is to be done by consent. I think it offers a very attractive way forward and I hope that the House will get behind it.

Prime Minister's Update

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is valiant for truth in this matter and he is right. The problem with the previously existing withdrawal agreement is that it would have kept the UK locked in the EU in a state tantamount to vassalage. We will make sure that the deal we do bears no resemblance to that predicament, and it will be a deal that I believe he can fully support.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

The irony is not lost on any of us that the Prime Minister told us that Prorogation was nothing to do with Brexit and yet here we are talking constantly about Brexit.

I want to raise with the Prime Minister a more serious point about our political culture. Those of us who constantly remember our friend Jo Cox need our political culture to change now. It is getting toxic. The Prime Minister’s language is violent and his Government are dysfunctional. Will he promise to change? Just for this Session, will he take responsibility for his action? Can he accept that he acted unlawfully, and bearing in mind that this is about advice to our monarch, will he tell us which of his Ministers will resign?

[The Prime Minister]

I agree with the hon. Lady that tempers have become very ragged across the country and people feel that the fever of Brexit has gone on for too long, but the best way to sort this out is to get Brexit done, and that is what we want. I hope that she will join us in getting a good deal for this country, and getting it through the House of Commons.

G7 Summit

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Tuesday 3rd September 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I can indeed explain. My hon. Friend will recall that under the Kyoto protocol, targets were set for the reduction of greenhouse gases; what the world now wants to see is specific targets—quanta—for the protection of endangered species, whether flora or fauna. It is a tragedy that the number of elephants in the wild is down now to about 300,000 and the number of lions down to perhaps 15,000; we are seeing the tragic reduction of species around the world, and the world needs to work together to prevent that loss of habitat and loss of species, and that is what we agreed to do at G7. [Interruption.] The right hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) does not care about it, but, believe me, the people of this country care passionately—they care passionately about what is happening to animals around the world. She is totally indifferent to it, but my constituents certainly are not.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister tells us he is going to Dublin on Monday to see the Taoiseach where no doubt he will be asked, as he has been asked today, about his proposals for the backstop, so may I ask if he has seen the comment from former Member of this House Gavin Barwell, who says that he has

“had same reports re ‘sham negotiations’ from multiple govt sources”

and that if it is not true, the Government should publish their proposals to replace the backstop? Why will he not do that?

[The Prime Minister]

We do not negotiate in public, but I think I have given the House quite a lot already about what we want and what we want to do. The one thing that will stop us achieving this is if our negotiating ability is neutralised by this House of Commons.

Priorities for Government

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Thursday 25th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right. It is vital that we give business in Kent and hauliers of all kinds the logistical support they need, and as she knows, a huge amount of work is already being done.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

It is quite clear that this is now a Vote Leave Government. Contrary to what the Prime Minister said, he has been clear about the possibility of a no-deal Brexit. I want to take him back to his words as part of Vote Leave. He said on 1 June 2016:

“There will be no change to the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.”

The day before the referendum, he said he wanted to reassure people that if they voted leave,

“there won’t be a sudden change that disrupts the economy.”

No change to the border and no sudden change to the economy—does he stand by his promises, yes or no?

[The Prime Minister]

Of course, because that is the most sensible way forward. As the House will have heard several times, this Government will under no circumstances institute checks at the border in Northern Ireland. As for a smooth and orderly departure from the EU, that is now in the hands of our friends and partners, and I hope that they will see sense and compromise.

Zimbabwe

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Wednesday 15th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

My hon. Friend brings a wealth of experience to this subject, and he is absolutely right. The message I am trying to get over to the House this afternoon is that we should not jump the gun; we should not jump to conclusions about exactly how things are going to turn out in the course of the next few days, or even hours. My hon. Friend is extremely sensible to urge caution.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

Thank you for granting this urgent question, Mr Speaker.

My constituent Petronella Mahachi, originally from Zimbabwe, came to see me only on Friday, and has asked me to ask the Foreign Secretary about the forthcoming elections. What practical steps will the UK be taking to ensure that they are free and fair, especially in respect of the participation of international bodies that can guarantee the security and democracy of those elections?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Tuesday 11th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. He is of course right. Iraq is an ethnically divided and religiously divided country. We must make sure that everybody feels properly represented in the new constitution, and devolution to Mosul is certainly an option that we will be exploring.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

Further to the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock), before the Foreign Secretary meets the all-party friends of Syria group, will he discuss a comprehensive strategy to protect civilians with the Department for International Development and the Ministry of Defence so that we can have a proper joined-up strategy at last?

[Boris Johnson]

I can tell the hon. Lady that that is already happening.

Syria and North Korea

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Tuesday 18th April 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

I fully appreciate the point my hon. Friend makes and he is perfectly right when he says that our thoughts should equally be with the 126 victims of that appalling attack, many of whom were children, as the right hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury said. There are many, many victims in this conflict, but the overwhelming majority of the 400,000 who have died in the past five or six years—I believe this war is now in its seventh year—have been victims of the Assad regime and its supporters. For that reason, I must say to my hon. Friend that I understand his hesitations, which are of course shared by many people, who think instinctively that perhaps it would be better to stay with the devil we know, but this is a very, very odious devil indeed, and as I look ahead I just cannot see how Bashar al-Assad can remain in power in Syria in the long term. We have to go back a long way in history to find somebody who has murdered quite so many of his population and retained office.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

I thank the Foreign Secretary for his statement. Of course, it is not for any of us in this House to decide who runs Syria; that is a choice for the Syrian people.

We should judge recent events in Syria as being successful only if they form part of a comprehensive strategy to protect civilian life. What conversations has the Foreign Secretary had with the Secretary of State for International Development about getting the aid that we as a country have paid for to those who need it in Syria? Thanks to you, Mr Speaker, we were able to call for such action for Aleppo, but we failed. Now, people in Idlib are being targeted in a way that we have discussed in this House previously. What strategy do we have to save civilian lives, to get aid in, to get people out of Syria so that they can receive medical attention, and to help to save each and every life that we can?

[Boris Johnson]

I pay tribute to the hon. Lady’s consistent campaigning on this issue over the years. She is right to draw attention to the appalling humanitarian situation. Around 1.5 million people are still being besieged by Assad’s regime, which is using starvation as an instrument of warfare. On what we are trying to do, I go back to my earlier points: there must be a ceasefire and the Russians must make it possible for the humanitarian convoys to access the people who need help. That is what we are trying to promote, not only in Geneva but at the Astana talks. It is up to the Russians. We can build the exit for them, and I think it is an attractive exit: they have the chance to get long-term western support for the rebuilding of Syria; they would have their strategic interests in Syria—at Tartus and Latakia—protected in the long term; and they could have a political role in Syria’s future, but they have to ensure that there is a ceasefire, an end to the barrel bombs and a proper political process.

US Immigration Policy

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Monday 30th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

I am glad my hon. Friend has pointed that out. I had alluded to it in an elliptical way, but it is right that the House should be aware of that discrimination and the ban that exists. By the way, the House should reflect on the fact that all immigration and visa policies are by their nature discriminatory as between individuals and nations.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

The Foreign Secretary is right about one thing: we have lots of friends in America. I stand with our friends there today who are standing up against this ban, which affects Muslims and others from those countries, but may I turn the Foreign Secretary’s attention back to the humanitarian cause in the middle east? Many of those affected will have been striving to save lives in Syria, Iraq and elsewhere. What contact has he had with humanitarian leaders to ensure that they can travel to the United States if they need to do so?

[Boris Johnson]

What I can say about the conversations we have had so far is that, where people have diplomatic or political reasons to travel, or if they are travelling because they are aid workers, there should be expeditious systems for ensuring that they get through fast. That also applies to some of the people who are resident in this country but do not have either dual or UK nationality.

Aleppo/Syria: International Action

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Programme motion: House of Commons
Tuesday 13th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

We are gathering all the information that we think will be necessary for the prosecution of those guilty of war crimes, but the diplomatic pressure must continue. It was asked earlier what we are doing in the EU; I can tell the House that the UK stood up at the last meeting of the Foreign Affairs Council and argued for tightening sanctions against Russia in respect of Syria as well. I wish that the rest of the EU would follow suit.

Last Saturday I broke off a visit to the middle east to fly to Paris to discuss these matters with Secretary Kerry. I pay tribute to John Kerry for his efforts, but they have not prevailed. We jointly demanded that the “regime and its backers” allowed the UN to deliver aid “with immediate effect.” Assad has doggedly refused to allow the UN to deliver supplies to hundreds of thousands of people, many of whom are now starving. He is content for his own people to be reduced to starvation, even though there are UN warehouses full of food within easy reach.

[Alison McGovern]

What specific action to protect civilians will the Foreign Secretary tell the Prime Minister that she should propose to our European colleagues when she goes to the European Council next week?

[Boris Johnson]

What the Russians need to do—this is what our European colleagues should do as well—is to institute an immediate ceasefire. It is up to the Russians, and, I am afraid, to the Assad regime, to institute a ceasefire. I will come in a minute to the deficiencies and problems that our decision in 2013 left us with today. Many Members have sought to find fault with the UK Government and what we have tried to do. Given that we are contributing £2.3 billion of aid, many Members have asked an entirely legitimate question: why we do not fly in aid ourselves? Labour Members have asked that very question: why do we not drop aid on eastern Aleppo from the air? Many have spoken in favour of airdrops. In recent weeks since we last discussed this matter in the House, we have studied that option with great care. Working with my colleagues across Whitehall, and working with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence and the RAF, I must tell the House that we have come up against some hard realities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Boris Johnson]

I am afraid I will not.

There is another inescapable reality that Members must accept. On 29 August 2013, this House voted by 13 votes not to use force against Assad, even after he had poisoned hundreds of his people with sarin nerve gas. We, as a House of Commons and as a country, vacated the space into which Russia stepped, beginning its own bombing campaign on behalf of Assad in 2015. Ever since that vote, our ability to influence events in Syria, to protect civilians or to compel the delivery of aid has been severely limited. The dictator was left to do his worst—along with his allies, Russia and Iran—and the bloodiest tragedy of the 21st century has since unfolded.

I must say—the House should listen to this—that Assad’s conquest of Aleppo will not mark the end of the war. The victory will turn to ashes in his mouth, because even if he reimposes his rule over the rubble of that city, about two thirds of Syria will remain outside his control. Millions of Syrians are viscerally hostile to the rule of a tyrant who has the blood of hundreds of thousands on his hands. Already Daesh has taken the opportunity created by Assad’s assault on Aleppo to surge forwards and capture again the ancient Roman city of Palmyra. Assad has repeatedly said that his aim is nothing less than the re-conquest of “every inch” of Syria. If he is allowed to pursue that goal, I fear that this war will continue for more years, and victory will still elude him.

My question to those who ask what we would do—let us turn the question around—is: do Russia and Iran want to stand behind Assad in this futile and indefinite struggle to subdue Syria? Do they want to be with him siege for siege, barrel bomb for barrel bomb and gas attack for gas attack, as the tyrant reduces his country to ashes? In the months or perhaps years ahead, does Russia still wish to be dispatching warplanes to bomb Syrian cities while casting votes in the Security Council on behalf of Assad, a man for whom it has no great regard?

[Alison McGovern]

The Foreign Secretary mentions the vote in 2013; I will live with that for the rest of my life. May I ask again the question that I asked him earlier? There is no pressure on Russia at the moment, so why does he not tell the Prime Minister to go to the European Council and propose action that is led by the UK and supported by our European allies?

[Boris Johnson]

I can tell the hon. Lady that we are doing everything that we can within the constraints we face. I have described the restrictions on military options, which I think most people in this country understand.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Tuesday 22nd November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on his characteristic verbal dexterity. I think he speaks for many people—many common-sensical people—in this House and in this country who want a thriving relationship between the United Kingdom and the United States of America.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

What representations has the Foreign Secretary made to our American counterparts about Aleppo, where bombing this weekend has caused the last children’s hospital there to close?

[Boris Johnson]

As the hon. Lady knows—she has campaigned a great deal on this issue—we are working hand in glove with the United States to try to get a ceasefire in Aleppo. I last had a conversation with John Kerry on this matter very recently. Alas, it has proved impossible so far to persuade the Russians to drop their support for their Syrian client, but they have the opportunity to do just that. We need to reach out to the Russians and show that it is now up to them to demonstrate the leadership the world expects, to call for a ceasefire in Aleppo, to deliver a ceasefire in Aleppo, to let the humanitarian aid get through and to prevent a catastrophe for the people of that city over the winter months.

Counter-Daesh Campaign: Iraq and Syria

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Thursday 3rd November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

My hon. Friend raises an extremely good point. As I mentioned to the House a few weeks ago and repeated just now, the UK has launched a campaign, working with our partners, to bring to justice the Daesh terrorists, the perpetrators of violence and crimes against humanity. As I said before, the mills of justice grind slowly but they grind small. We are assembling the evidence, supporting NGOs in the gathering of evidence and working with our partners to establish exactly what legal mechanism would be most suited to bringing those people to justice.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

This statement is about Daesh, but the Foreign Secretary has quite rightly not held back his words condemning Assad’s brutality to his own people. In line with the campaign by the Daily Mirror to save Aleppo, which I am sure the right hon. Gentleman supports, will he come back to this House as soon as possible with a comprehensive British-led strategy to protect civilians in Syria?

[Boris Johnson]

I pay tribute to the long-standing commitment that the hon. Lady has shown to this cause. I will give the undertaking that she asks for, in the sense that we are working on that the whole time. The House will have heard me explain before that some options commend themselves to people in a slightly glib way—we talk about no-fly zones or no-bomb zones—and they sound easier than they are, but as I am sure the hon. Lady will know, there are other things that we could and should be doing. We can do them only in a coalition of international partners, and, as the Prime Minister rightly said at the October European Council, no option is off the table.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Boris Johnson and Alison McGovern

Tuesday 18th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

It is not just the Syrian opposition but Syrian civil society and non-governmental organisations in this country who are calling for our Government to lead on a comprehensive strategy to protect civilians, including a no-bombing zone. Will the Foreign Secretary confirm that our Government will now take a lead in considering this strategy?

[Boris Johnson]

I pay tribute to the forcefulness with which the hon. Lady has advocated this course. I must say that I wish that, three years ago, the then Labour Opposition had been as resolute in wishing to see that kind of engagement to protect the people of Syria. A critical decision was taken then, as the right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) well remembers, which has made things much more difficult for us today. I want to see the will of this House clearly expressed in support of what the hon. Lady has said.