Military Covenant

Debate between Bob Stewart and Patrick Mercer

Wednesday 21st November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Patrick Mercer]

The hon. Gentleman is exactly right, and prompts me to share a very short anecdote. The last time I was in Afghanistan with the grenadier company of my old battalion, the company major told me that every single man in the company had used his weapon and killed or injured. I said, “Are they all right?” He said, “They’re fine, except for the company sniper. He’s killed more than 25 men now, and he’s the one man I really worry about, because he enjoys it too much.” That illustrates the point exactly—that is the sort of thing with which we must cope in future.

I will not detain the House for much longer, but I should like to make one more suggestion to the Minister. My view is that how we looked after serving and discharged personnel—it is now called the military covenant, but it was not called that at the time—was much better after the first world war than after the second world war. I commend not only the various patriotic funds that were set up, but the schemes in various large cities and towns—it was a different economic period—to set up taxi services specifically to be run by, mainly, limbless soldiers. Vehicles were bought and adapted for the men, and areas where veterans taxis would run were specifically designated. The cities and towns included Nottingham, Derby and Middlesbrough. I am not suggesting we replicate that scheme exactly, but other imaginative things can be done to help those men and women to return physically and mentally to their place in society. We could look at that suggestion to everybody’s benefit.

[Bob Stewart]

One problem with getting rid of regiments and making the infantry and other parts of the Army smaller is that we are losing regimental headquarters. Up till now, the regiment has been the one organisation to keep a proper trace on soldiers until they die. Soldiers are looked after by regimental headquarters, and friends warn when there is a problem. It is very sad, but that is one problem with losing our regimental headquarters.

[Patrick Mercer]

I am grateful to my hon. and gallant Friend. How on earth can we talk about localism while we are disbanding local regiments? I find that difficult to understand. I entirely endorse his point that the regimental structure was as much charitable as tactical, but there we are.

We have heard about the contribution of people from Northern Ireland, which I respect and honour. I would point out that Nottinghamshire—man for man—took more casualties proportionately than any other county in Great Britain in the first world war and won more Victoria Crosses. We should respect our veterans, whether they come from Fermanagh, Derby, Nottingham or London. We must give them exactly the deal they understood they would get when they enlisted. I hope some of my suggestions will be put into practice by the Minister.

Iran

Debate between Bob Stewart and Patrick Mercer

Monday 20th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Patrick Mercer]

I am most grateful to my right hon. and learned Friend. However, the words still sit uneasily with me. I do not believe that we are in the business of tinkering with world peace.

I found Defence questions earlier today very depressing. The right hon. Member for Belfast North said in this debate that this situation is the biggest threat to world peace. We are already involved in a regional war in this area. As my hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton-Brown) made so very clear, the country that we are talking about borders Afghanistan, and the regional war stretches through Afghanistan, into Pakistan and touches nuclear-tipped Russia at one end and the potentially nuclear-tipped Iran at the other. We cannot afford any ill-judged military action.

I do not want to sound like a stuck record and to go through all the points that have been made about Iran’s hideous rhetoric; the fact that she may be working on a weapons programme: the fact that, as we speak, she has troops involved in an exercise in southern Iran, called in support of the military leadership; the fact that she is threatening to close the strait of Hormuz; and so on. However, I will say this. When I visited Tehran, some interesting things came to mind. For instance, until I was taken down the boulevard of Bobby Sands—there is a boulevard of that name in the centre of Tehran—I had not realised that Great Britain, and Iran’s relationship with Great Britain, had such high relevance in Iranian and Persian thinking. I had not realised that Great Britain punched above its weight in Iranian thinking. I had not realised that Iran saw Britain as perfidious Albion—I am generalising hugely, of course.

Much of the west’s foreign policy is seen, obviously wrongly, as being dictated by ourselves as a tiny but important nation. I had not realised that a Tehranian might say, “Heavens above, it’s raining again. It’s typical British weather.” All the ills of the world seem to be laid at this country’s door. That puts us in an extremely important position in negotiating with Iran. Many of the Foreign Secretary’s comments therefore give me heart.

When I was in Iran, the Iranians said to us, “Are you honestly suggesting that we support al-Qaeda? Please demonstrate.” Of course, we said, “Well, we have the evidence.” “Do you?” “No, we only have circumstantial evidence.” Of course, we are used to hearing misinformation and black propaganda—we need look no further than our intervention in Iraq under the last Government, in the second Gulf war. In Iran, we said, for instance, “We have heard that the central shura of al-Qaeda is resident here in Tehran”. The reply was, “Please point it out, because it is not. There is no evidence to suggest that that is the case.”

Similarly, we asked British troops in Afghanistan whether they could demonstrate whether any of the weapons being used against them had come from Iran. The answer was yes, but there were also weapons that had come from France, the USA, Germany and Britain herself. There was nothing to indicate a relationship between al-Qaeda and Iran, despite everything that we were hearing from the western press.

Here is the rub: the single most important thing I heard in Iran was that the current generation of leaders there fully understand what it is like to be involved in a war of national survival. Many of the individuals who are now of political maturity were young men of military age during the Iran-Iraq war. One Member—forgive me, I cannot remember which—said earlier that nuclear weapons had only ever been used once. That is true, but let us not forget that in the Iran-Iraq war, when hundreds of thousands of men were killed in action and millions of people died, weapons of mass destruction were used willingly.

[Bob Stewart]

I am sure my hon. Friend would agree that that war was started by Iraq and, to the best of my knowledge, Iran has not started a war.

[Patrick Mercer]

I thank my hon. and gallant Friend and entirely agree. My point is that many of the current generation of decision makers, if that is the right phrase in Iran—we cannot look at them as one cohesive political body—have experienced war at first hand. They understand what weapons of mass destruction are like, and my opinion is that if they are allowed to get hold of such weaponry, they will probably use it.

That puts us in an exceedingly difficult position on the one hand and an exceedingly powerful position on the other hand. I say to the Foreign Secretary and the Defence Secretary that if we want our military position to be credible, let us make it so. Let us not have instances, such as we had in the past, of the Royal Navy being embarrassed in the Gulf. Let us ensure that our operations are above reproach. We cannot be anything less than credible.

In the current white-hot and dangerous situation, we have the opportunity to negotiate. When it comes down to it, no side really wants to fight. Let us therefore take the opportunity for Great Britain to prove that she is not perfidious, and to speak to her friends in Israel and America and lead the way. We can use our influence, to use an awful aphorism, to punch above our weight. Although we have the military option, let us pray that we never, ever have to use it.