Iraq: Coalition Against ISIL

Debate between Bob Ainsworth and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Friday 26th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I give way to the former Secretary of State for Defence.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

There is a problem in Iraq, though, that we need to recognise. It is not just political and it is not just about capability. There needs to be a will from the Iraqi army to defend the Sunni areas of the country. In the Prime Minister’s talks with the new Government, has he seen that change, which actually means that our air strikes will support a country that has the will to defend all its own people?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. That is the conversation we are having with the Iraqi Government. There is no doubt in my mind that this Iraqi Prime Minister is a change from the previous regime. They understand this point but frankly we should be tough in our interactions with them. They want our help. They want more training and more expertise. They want our counter-terrorism expertise to help them to defend against these appalling car bombs in Baghdad. We should give them that help, but we should say as we give it to them, “This is conditional on you defending and protecting all your people, and that must include the Sunnis in Iraq as well.”

Ukraine (Flight MH17) and Gaza

Debate between Bob Ainsworth and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 21st July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that this is a test of Europe’s fibre—of proving that we can stand up to these threats and do so in a way that is consistent, firm and predictable. That is what needs to happen, so that Russia knows what the result of these types of actions will be. On the issue of defence equipment, we already unilaterally said—as did the US—that we would not sell further arms to Russia; we believe other European countries should do the same. Frankly, in this country it would be unthinkable to fulfil an order like the one outstanding that the French have, but we need to put the pressure on with all our partners to say that we cannot go on doing business as usual with a country when it is behaving in this way.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

The Ukrainian separatists have managed to acquire heavy weapons, armour, missile systems and, now, refrigerated trains. They are, beyond argument, an extension of the Kremlin’s power and policy. A gesture strategy simply will not do; we need economic disentanglement, we need effective sanctions and we need, in the face of this kind of regime, to re-examine our security policy, along with that of our allies. Does the Prime Minister not agree?

[The Prime Minister]

First, I do agree with the right hon. Gentleman that so much of what we see in eastern Ukraine is actually being controlled remotely or at one remove by the Kremlin. I think there is growing evidence for that, and we should be clear that this is not simply a home-grown resistance movement. There are Russian personnel, there is Russian backing, there are Russian weapons systems, and despite repeated requests that the border be properly closed, that has not happened.

I absolutely agree with the right hon. Gentleman as well that we need to take a tough, clear and predictable approach. We have got to explain to Russia that it cannot expect a normal relationship with the EU, Britain or the US if it continues to behave in this way, so what is required, as he says, is a tough, clear and predictable response. In examining our own security, that is something quite rightly done in the strategic defence and security review.

European Council and Nuclear Security Summit

Debate between Bob Ainsworth and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 26th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend asks a very good question: whether it was opportunistic or part of a strategy. I think that one can argue that it is part of a pattern. If we look at Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria and other frozen conflicts, we see a pattern emerging. That reinforces the importance of not just the west—NATO, the EU and the US—but the UN and other countries recognising that if we reward that sort of aggression in this part of Europe, others in other parts of the world will draw lessons from that. With regard to strengthening NATO, we have the opportunity of the NATO conference in Wales this year to reaffirm and refresh NATO’s vows, and I expect there to be a good and strong conversation about how to ensure that it maintains its relevance in the modern age.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

Does not the annexation of Crimea demonstrate the weakness of our strategic approach to the Putin regime over many years? I understand the need for short-term reactions and rhetoric, but surely the emphasis must now be on long-term measures, because the nature of the regime has been apparent for many years. Energy dependency, economic dependency and defence capability through NATO are where our emphasis needs to be with regard to this crisis.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes some very good points. The UK is not reliant on Russia for energy; we use a very small supply of gas that comes from Russia. That contrasts hugely with some other European countries, many of which rely on Russia for 80% or more of their gas. I agree that we need a long-term approach, as I said in my statement and in answers to questions, but I take issue slightly with what he said, because I think that this Government, and indeed the previous Government, have tried to engage with Russia not on the basis of softening the real concerns we have—we did not water down the Litvinenko measures, for example—but by arguing very strongly about the importance of human rights, civil rights and democracy, and in meetings with President Putin I have raised things such as the importance of gay equality. So we engage, but in a hard-headed way. I do not think that that engagement was wrong, but clearly if Russia chooses to go down this path there will be big consequences for the way that relationship works in future.

G20

Debate between Bob Ainsworth and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 9th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an absolutely key point. Having the available resources is part of the solution, but it is no good unless we can get the aid to the 6 million people in Syria who need it, which requires access. As I have said, if that requires us to go to the UN and seek a Security Council resolution, that is an option that we can undertake. The Russians say that they want to see this aid go through, but we need them to put pressure on the regime to make sure that access is granted.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

On the day of the recall, it was the will of the House, surely, that the issue of Syria go to a full United Nations examination, rather than an early military intervention. Why has that not been the emphasis of the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary since? The Prime Minister appears, while saying that we will not be a participant, to continue to urge the Americans to get on with it?

[The Prime Minister]

The motion that we put before the House spoke specifically of there being a UN vote—a UN process—and not then some sort of rush, as the right hon. Gentleman likes to say, to military action. It specifically mentioned that there would have to be another vote, but he voted against that motion. It did say that there would be another vote, but the point he makes is important. Of course we always favour taking things to the United Nations, but in the end we have to make a decision in this House and the Opposition have to make a decision too: do we think it is right to confront those who use chemical weapons? I think it is.

Syria and the Use of Chemical Weapons

Debate between Bob Ainsworth and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Thursday 29th August 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point that relates to what happened in Kosovo and elsewhere, but let me be clear about what we are talking about today: yes it is about that doctrine, but it is also about chemical weapons. It is about a treaty the whole world agreed to almost 100 years ago, after the horrors of the first world war. The question before us is this: is Britain a country that wants to uphold that international taboo against the use of chemical weapons? My argument is that yes, it should be that sort of country.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister cites the issues relating to Iraq and the impact they have on decisions today, but the perception—a justifiable perception in my opinion—of his own preparedness to get involved in this conflict long before the current incident surely has an impact on the decisions of today.

[The Prime Minister]

What I would say to the right hon. Gentleman is that the case I am making is that the House of Commons needs to consider purely and simply this issue of massive chemical weapons use by this regime. I am not arguing that we should become more involved in this conflict. I am not arguing that we should arm the rebels. I am not making any of those arguments. The question before us—as a Government, as a House of Commons, as a world—is that there is the 1925 post-first world war agreement that these weapons are morally reprehensible, so do we want to try to maintain that law? Put simply, is it in Britain’s national interest to maintain an international taboo on the use of chemical weapons on the battlefield? My argument is: yes, it is. Britain played a part in drawing up that vital protocol—which, incidentally, Syria signed—and I think we have an interest in maintaining it.

Afghanistan and EU Council

Debate between Bob Ainsworth and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let me try to answer all my right hon. Friend’s questions. In terms of the Afghan national security forces, which are getting towards the number of 340,000—a sizeable investment that the international community has made—the Afghan army will be accountable to the Afghan Government and the Afghan President. That is how it should work. My right hon. Friend is right to say that we still need to work on the balance of the different ethnicities in the Afghan national army, but Pashtuns are being recruited to it. I recently had the great honour of speaking at the passing-out parade of new officers at Sandhurst, and I gave an award to a Pashtun from Helmand who had passed out of Sandhurst and was about to serve in the Afghan national army.

My right hon. Friend’s point about the need to avoid a splintering of Afghanistan is absolutely right. We want to avoid that, and I think the Afghans want to avoid it. That is why it is so important that we continue, long after our troops have left the combat role, to fund the Afghan national security forces, as well as continuing to fund Afghanistan. If we do that, and if the successor to President Karzai properly balances and understands the different pressures in the country, I see no reason why it cannot stay together.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

The Afghan forces have improved their capability year on year, but there are still challenges in logistics and equipment. I am told that there are no plans for us to pass over or gift any equipment to the Afghans—even some of the more theatre-specific equipment that we have acquired over the years. If all the ISAF countries adopt the same attitude, how are those challenges going to be met after the draw-down of the combat mission?

[The Prime Minister]

First of all, we look at all the equipment we have and at individual Afghan requests to see whether it is something that we can make available. The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that the capabilities of these forces have increased. As he knows, in talking to our forces out in Afghanistan, it is striking to find out that we are talking to people on their second or third tour, who have seen a radical improvement in what is available. One of the challenges is making sure that the Afghan army has all the enablers and all the assistance it needs—and the Americans are specifically looking at that problem. What has been noticeable about the recent attacks on Kabul is that they were dealt with entirely by the Afghan national security forces—and dealt with very effectively.

Algeria

Debate between Bob Ainsworth and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 21st January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes a very important point. Just as we have to isolate and defeat this sort of terrorism in a security and military sense, we need to isolate and defeat the poisonous ideology on which it feeds; and that requires, as he says, Muslim leaders and faith leaders—and, indeed, leaders of Muslim-majority countries—to condemn it in very strong terms. I have been very struck over the last year that the Prime Minister of Malaysia and the President of Indonesia, along with a number of countries, have made the strongest possible statements about how Islam is completely incompatible with this sort of taking of life, and we need to hear that a lot more in the future.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister is right to use this tragedy to make people aware of the growing threat from the region. He is also right to say that the best response is a regional-led response, but do we have the capacity to have a proper input across the range in this area? The Foreign Office’s headline cuts were a lot bigger once the responsibilities for the BBC had been transferred. We need a diplomatic, political, security and developmental response to this kind of situation if the threat is to be removed, which can only happen over time.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman asks a central question. I would say yes, there is the capacity, for two good reasons. First, I believe we are more effectively co-ordinating what we have. The National Security Council means that we have the Development Secretary, the Home Secretary, the Foreign Secretary and the Defence Secretary, with their budgets, sitting round the table, which makes it more possible to use that money—including through the conflict pool—to come to terms with the challenges we face. Secondly, we have taken some difficult decisions on defence, but as a result we have reduced the amount of unfunded commitments and our budget is now, as it were, in balance for the future. We can afford the very important capabilities that include heavy lift—vital for the sorts of things we are doing with the French—air-to-air refuelling and those sorts of capacities, which will be so important for the future.

G8 and NATO Summits

Debate between Bob Ainsworth and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 23rd May 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I do not agree with that position. I think the right position for the UK is to say that we should hold a referendum only if power were to pass from Westminster to Brussels or if we were to join some new treaty or political construction that involved the passing of that power. I agree with my hon. Friend, however, that the single currency clearly has within it the seeds of greater political union, so we have to work out—in this country, in our coalition and in the Conservative party—how to respond to that and how to get the best deal for Britain as the situation develops.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister talks about the continued importance of NATO and about some of the things that have been agreed, but the agreed changes are largely peripheral and the need for reform is profound. Is there not a danger that the understandable focus on the economic crisis is sucking the life out of the need for reform in NATO? Will he focus on that? Notwithstanding the understandable needs of the economy, will the Prime Minister make sure that the change programme that is so badly needed to get decent interoperability within NATO does not lose its momentum?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman speaks with great knowledge of this subject. I would be a little more optimistic: one NATO reform, which I know he would welcome, aimed to cut the bureaucratic and headquarters posts around Europe. To be fair to Secretary-General Rasmussen, he has done an excellent job in delivering that. We have also delivered the ballistic missile defence in interim capability, which is another important step forward for NATO. Where I am perhaps more optimistic than the right hon. Gentleman is that I think the reality of the situation will drive us towards reform. Everyone faces tough budgets, and the fact that America is now providing almost three quarters of NATO’s funding and assets is unsustainable, so other countries are, frankly, going to have to step up to the plate, look at their arrangements and co-operate more, as we are with the French, to deliver more of the teeth and less of the tail.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Bob Ainsworth and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 14th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

Is freezing the pay of young privates and corporals while they are fighting in Afghanistan, without reference to the Armed Forces Pay Review Body, a breach of the military covenant?

[The Prime Minister]

It is this Government who doubled the operational allowance, which is the best way to get money to the privates and the corporals in Afghanistan who are doing such a good job. The operational allowance, being a flat cash sum, is of disproportionate benefit to relatively low-paid people in the armed forces, whereas obviously a percentage increase would mean more money for the generals, the colonels and the brigadiers, rather than for the people on the front line. Looking at the operational allowance is crucial, but this Government have not just done that. We have extended the pupil premium to forces children, we have increased the council tax rebates for those who are serving, and for the first time we have written the military covenant into the law of our land.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Bob Ainsworth and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 4th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

On 25 June last year, speaking on the Ark Royal, the Prime Minister told our armed forces that he would enshrine the military covenant in law. Why is he watering down that commitment to a useless referencing?

[The Prime Minister]

I do not believe for a minute that that is what is being done. What is going to happen is that we are going to clearly reference the covenant in law and then the covenant will be published and debated in this House every year. It is vital that we are able to update and improve it every year, because our military personnel face so many changing circumstances. We are looking across government at all the things we can do, for example, on health care, on education, and on things such as council tax for soldiers serving overseas—these are many of the things that the last Government failed to do—to look after our armed service personnel.

Counter-terrorism

Debate between Bob Ainsworth and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Tuesday 3rd May 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. Of course there are frustrations, and questions will be asked about who knew what in Pakistan and about how this man could have lived in such a large house in such a comfortable-looking community so close to military installations. I am absolutely clear that the British interest is in working with the democratic politicians of Pakistan to deal with the shared issues of combating extremism; ensuring that we are dealing with a safe, rather than a dangerous, nuclear power; and, as my hon. Friend says, reaching a settlement in Afghanistan so that we can bring Britain’s brave troops home.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

The brave and incredibly skilled individuals who carried out this operation deserve our profound gratitude, as do all those who put their lives on the line to protect us, including our own armed forces. In tackling the wider ideology of al-Qaeda, does the Prime Minister think that there are actions that we need to take abroad, as well as those that we need to take at home? The reconciliation track in Afghanistan is enormously important, and surely this operation gives us the opportunity to step up that activity. Did he talk to the President of the United States about that, and if he did not, will he do so?

[The Prime Minister]

I absolutely agree with the right hon. Gentleman that this is an opportunity, particularly in Afghanistan. Having discussed this matter with President Obama on many occasions, it is clear that there are two tracks that we should be pursuing. There is the military track, where we are building up the Afghan army and police, and having success against the insurgency in Afghanistan, where our troops are performing magnificently. At the same time, there is a political track, where we are saying to the Taliban that it is time for them to give up violence, break the link with al-Qaeda and enter a political process. Both tracks can continue simultaneously, but the death of bin Laden and the work with Pakistan present a greater opportunity for the second track to yield success.

NATO Summit

Debate between Bob Ainsworth and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 22nd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think that is possible. The problem has been, as my right hon. and learned Friend well knows—he has great expertise in this—that relations between NATO and Russia have been extremely strained in recent years. At the weekend, I observed a proper thawing of that situation, with President Medvedev happy to sit down and discuss what NATO and Russia could do together. I think his view is very much that this should be an expansive agenda whereby we can look at more and more areas that we can discuss.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

I agree with so much of what the Prime Minister has said, but there is one area about which I continue to be concerned. Why did he feel he had to say publicly that there would be a deadline of 2015? A timetable for 2014 had already been set, and he knows that some Government Members, including even some Ministers, have struggled and still struggle to use the same words as he does. Why did he feel that he had to say publicly that there is to be a complete end to the combat mission in 2015?

[The Prime Minister]

That is absolutely the right question to ask; let me answer it as clearly as I can. I think that the British people, having paid such a high price in Afghanistan, want some certainty that there is an end point. That is the first reason. I wanted to be clear that the operation will not go on for ever. I am confident that we will succeed in our goals by 2014, which will enable end-of-combat operations and much lower numbers in 2015, but I wanted to make it clear to people so that they can see that there is an end point.

There is a second reason. I think the alternative to having that deadline is endless pressure to set very short-term deadlines for transitioning this province or district at this time. I would rather we had a proper, worked-out process and plan to deliver that. I think that the 2015 deadline helps us to do that and that it gives people confidence that, 14 years after going into Afghanistan in 2001, there is an end point. I am glad I think I heard support from the Labour Front Bench for that.

Strategic Defence and Security Review

Debate between Bob Ainsworth and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Tuesday 19th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I really can reassure my hon. Friend. I am a very strong supporter of replacing Trident. We have sought the best military advice on what is right for its replacement, and the fact is that because we have been operating the Vanguard submarines for many years, we know what their life can be. We know that it is absolutely right to go through the initial gate this year—we are spending some £700 million in this Parliament on Trident’s replacement—but to go through the final gate of actually commissioning the building in 2016. We are on track to replace Trident and have a full-service nuclear deterrent. It is the right decision, and it saves money at the same time. That is what we should do.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

Is not the Prime Minister doing precisely what he criticises with regard to Trident? He is putting off the decision and delaying the expenditure, thereby increasing it. He has also cancelled the Nimrod aircraft, rendering our nuclear deterrent less than invulnerable. How is that sensible, never mind strategic?

[The Prime Minister]

Let me first answer the right hon. Gentleman’s last question. What we are proposing would mean no reduction in continuous at-sea deterrence, which is vital. We set out that we were committed to Trident’s replacement but wanted a value-for-money review, and we asked the Ministry of Defence to go through all the possibilities and look to see how we could extend the life of the existing submarines, work on Trident’s replacement and ensure that we had continuous at-sea deterrence all the way through. Those are the sorts of questions, frankly, that the last Government should have asked. It would be irresponsible not to do so if we want to have a full-service nuclear deterrent but want value for money. That is the sort of thing that the last Government should have been asking about.