Independent Expert Panel

Bernard Jenkin Excerpts

Wednesday 25th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I can confirm to the right hon. Gentleman that 134 completed applications were received —no doubt, from a variety of people. Of those applications, the ones that were seen to be the most suitable are those before the House, having been approved by the Commission. I think it is a distinguished panel—[Interruption.] The right hon. Gentleman mutters that it is chumocracy; I do not want to give too much away, but the only member of the panel who claimed a friendship of any kind with any Member of Parliament said that he was on nodding terms with the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition, so if they are chums, they are not my chums, particularly, but they are very important and good people.

[Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

I entirely support the idea that we should bring on to the panel people who have juridical experience in the courts, and I commend my right hon. Friend and the Commission for appointing to the chair of this body an ex-High Court judge. That is exactly the kind of authority, independence and legitimacy that is required to give both those being scrutinised or disciplined in this process and those who are complaining through this process the confidence that it is being done properly.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that point. Before the appointments were made, we had a number of representations from Members of this House saying that they would feel confident in the system if the chairman of the panel had the experience of a High Court judge, and Sir Stephen is a distinguished—

--- Later in debate ---

[Valerie Vaz]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her comments. She leads me to go on to say that Alison Stanley did a brilliant six-month review, and the concern is that not all her recommendations have been implemented. She is looking at the governance of who is responsible—who is the named person—for this whole process. The important part of the process is that it should be transparent and not secretive. I am aware of a number of cases that come through where perhaps the procedure is not fair on both sides—to the respondent and the claimant—but, again, that is a matter for Alison Stanley to look at in her 18-month review. As the Leader of the House said, it is a very simple survey, which can be found online, and it is open until 4 December.

[Sir Bernard Jenkin]

I am here as a member of the Standards Committee, which has absolutely no jurisdiction over the adjudication of any ICGS case, but it certainly falls within the remit of the Standards Committee to keep a watching policy brief on how the ICGS develops and whether we want to inquire and report and make recommendations on the performance of the ICGS. I am sure we will, and indeed I think we will want to learn the positive lessons from the ICGS for our own code, which we are currently reviewing in our own inquiry.

[Valerie Vaz]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for making that intervention. I agree with him, and I hope that anybody who has an interest will look at it. That is why the survey is so important. I know that Alison Stanley is open to speaking to people as well, and I am sure that she will take that on board.

I am pleased that a lot of hon. Members and House staff have taken up the Valuing Others training; many people on the estate have taken it up. It is so important that they do that, because people can then see the difference between what is a management issue and what is bullying and harassment. Certainly, I was concerned to start with because, as you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, many of the cases that came through at the start were about serious sexual harassment. I think initially, we decided—the right hon. Member for South Northamptonshire and I, among others on the working panel—that we would have two separate helplines. I know that there is one helpline for both, but I am reassured that the person answering the phone does have expertise and will have expertise on serious sexual harassment cases. We do not want a situation where people have to repeat their stories over and over again before they are dealt with.

As well as Valuing Others training, I know that the House is looking at unconscious bias training, which I hope will be rolled out, and I will just say that Her Majesty’s Opposition’s shadow Cabinet have all been through the unconscious bias training. Other than that, Her Majesty’s Opposition support the motion.

[Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

I rise only briefly, as an observer rather than a participant. As I pointed out a minute ago, the Standards Committee has no role in this, though we were consulted about the shape of the final process that should adjudicate the appeal cases in the ICGS scheme and we took an interest in what the character of the panel should be. I am personally very pleased that it reflects the necessary juridical expertise for assessing evidence and balancing the arguments about what rules mean and how this should be properly and independently assessed.

I think it is important for a member of the Standards Committee to convey to the House the disquiet of the Committee that this was taken out of our hands, but also for me to explain why I think that it was right, in the end, to take it out of our hands and why I voted for that. What was evident, not just from the Cox report but from the conversations with many staff in the House service, and conversations amongst MPs, was that the people whose complaints were stifled and ignored for so many years were left with no faith in the ability of MPs to mark their own homework—our ability to adjudicate on ourselves.

I have to tell the House that I find the cases that come before us about the breach of our own code extraordinarily difficult. It is the most testing and miserable task—to find myself having to make decisions about people I know, many of whom I know well and like. Personally, I will be looking at how the panel works, because our system for adjudicating our own code—the House of Commons code of conduct—is rather unsatisfactory, for the reason I have just described, and it may well be that the experience of this far more prestigious, objective and professional panel offers us a better way of adjudicating our own code.

I reiterate that we are conducting our own inquiry into the revision of the code of conduct, which is long overdue and has been interrupted by several general elections in recent years. We are doing a comprehensive trawl of options and considering how our own code intersects with the ICGS, with the ministerial code and with the codes of political parties. Members of Parliament are subject to many codes. The public are very confused, and have either no interest or no confidence in the systems, which overlap and conflict with each other, that we have created for the various roles that people adopt in this Parliament. We have a very big task—to reduce that confusion. There is, indeed, a lot of confusion amongst right hon. and hon. Members who do not understand how these things work.

So there needs to be a much higher level of engagement and understanding and a simplification and clarification, and that is what we are working on now. I hope that we will learn from the work of the panel, and if the panel is a success, we may well learn some very positive lessons.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

From the start, the SNP has welcomed and co-operated with the development and implementation of the ICGS process. Like others, I pay tribute to the former Leader of the House, the right hon. Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom). I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend —he really ought to be my right hon. Friend—the Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart). There is an extremely well qualified and distinguished line-up of individuals for approval. [Interruption.] I am sure that was tremendously funny, but I did not catch that sedentary intervention. A very distinguished panel of candidates has been brought before us, from a range of backgrounds, from across the four nations.

[Sir Bernard Jenkin]

I just misled the House. The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) would not have to swear allegiance to the Crown; he would have the oath administered to him. So it is rather like having an injection; it is just given to you. Whether we like it or not, and whether we agree with it or not, the oath is just given to you. If the hon. Gentleman wants to be a Privy Counsellor, he would have to go through that process.

[Patrick Grady]

It is slightly off topic, Madam Deputy Speaker, but the best way to find out would be for the Leader of the House to phone up my hon. Friend the Member for Perth and North Perthshire and make that offer to him; then we will see whether or not he rises to the offer of joining Her Majesty’s Privy Council.

I do not know whether any of the candidates in this line-up are Privy Counsellors as yet, but they have all left distinguished careers, they have experience across the four nations of the United Kingdom, which is welcome, and it is a gender-balanced line-up as well—although, as the shadow Leader of the House says, there is always more that can be done to promote ethnic diversity. But I think we should thank the Clerk Assistant and the panel for selecting such quality final panellists out of all the candidates who came forward.

I just wonder whether the Leader of the House was in touch with the candidates yesterday to explain the slightly unedifying scenes that took place when the motion was suddenly withdrawn without notice. I know that when lay people are being appointed by the House to commissions and so on, they quite often watch with anticipation to see what happens—they may well be watching just now—and they may have been a little bit shocked yesterday. If notice was not given to them, I hope that some kind of apology or explanation has been given for the kind of unedifying scenes that we went through yesterday, which cannot have exactly filled them with confidence about the commitments that they are about to take up. I am glad that they are taking them up, however.

It is absolutely right, as other hon. Members have said, that bullying and harassment of any kind are called out and properly investigated. They are completely unacceptable in any workplace, particularly the one that sets the rules and standards for the rest of the country. I have undertaken the valuing others training and the unconscious bias training and found them incredibly valuable; I know that many colleagues have as well when they have had the opportunity. I would recommend them to everyone.