Middle East: Security

Debate between Ben Wallace and Simon Hoare

Tuesday 7th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

I do not know how to start on that question. The United Kingdom would always seek to follow international law in dealing with threats against it. Within that international law range all the options such as arrest, detention and disruption, but there are some occasions—for example, when we saw the events in Syria take place—when, unfortunately, kinetic or lethal strike has been engaged by the RAF. The British Government have been very open about that, and it followed a vote in Parliament. We will always reserve in this country the right for us to defend ourselves against threats posed to our citizens, and I do not think the First Minister of Scotland would disagree with that at all.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

With hard-line voices currently drowning out moderate voices in Iran, what confidence can this House have that the President of the United States is alert to the Pandora’s box he has potentially opened, and what can the international civilised community do to articulate what it is to be a moderate country and to give succour, support and encouragement to those moderate voices in Iran to remain moderate and to remain speaking out?

[Mr Wallace]

I think the best way we can empower the moderate voice of Iran is to offer the hand of friendship to a way out—to say, “This is not about a war.” We do not want a war. We do not want the conflict to increase. We want to be clear about what behaviour we think should change, and also be prepared to deal in other parts to make sure we try to get them in a better place. I think that is the best solution for Iran. The moderates know that. Let us hope they can hear it.

Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill (Fourth sitting)

Debate between Ben Wallace and Simon Hoare

Committee Debate: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 3rd July 2018 Public Bill Committees

[Mr Wallace]

Section 58(3), as it stands, says:

“It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had a reasonable excuse for his action or possession.”

If we can build on that—whether that means expanding reasonable excuse or accepting that reasonable excuse is already in there—and couple it with new wording that does not sound like three clicks or three attempts, I think we can come to a position that is satisfactory. We will definitely try to do that on Report. If the Committee would like, I can deal with the individual amendments that have been put forward, but I am in contact with the hon. Member for Torfaen to ensure we progress this.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

Would it be fair to characterise the challenge my right hon. Friend has admitted the Bill faces as one of providing flexibility for law enforcement and uncertainty for perpetrators, while recognising the fact that, as he has alluded to, the down- loading and streaming culture has changed and there is a lacuna in the existing legislation that needs to be filled?

[Mr Wallace]

Yes. That is the challenge for all policy makers: where legislation is too tied to the technology of the day, they end up becoming a prisoner of that legislation. Obviously, when the Act was written in 2000, or probably in 1999, it talked about a person who was guilty of an offence if he collected or made a record of information. No one thought in 2000 that, with 4G, and with 5G around the corner, people would not be downloading everything and that things would be done much more in a live stream.

That is the challenge for not only law enforcement, but other policy, whatever regulations we are doing. If someone is sitting in the Treasury, I should think that they are perplexed—I am not going to wander off my brief, because I will get into trouble—at how certain companies exploit old tax regulation to make huge profits, simply based on the fact that that regulation was written for an analogue and not a digital day. That is the same challenge we face in law enforcement.

In the spirit of what I have said from the very start of the Bill, and as I said when the Criminal Finances Act 2017 went through the House previously, I am determined that we collectively try to get to a place that will help our law enforcement and intelligence services and meet their need, but also reflect the very real concerns that have been raised.

Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill (Fifth sitting)

Debate between Ben Wallace and Simon Hoare

Committee Debate: 5th sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 3rd July 2018 Public Bill Committees

[Simon Hoare]

The hon. Gentleman makes an apposite and valid point. My right hon. Friend the Minister will have heard it. I concur with it. I will not rise to speak in support of the probing nature of the hon. Gentleman’s other amendments, but I hope my right hon. Friend the Minister has taken the point about the need to talk to the Treasury and others responsible for City and insurance matters to ensure that we have a sector fit for purpose to both meet the security challenges and also—I see Clerks waving their hands as if I am saying something completely outrageous; I am not sure why. The Minister has heard what we have had to say.

[Mr Wallace]

I am very sympathetic to the aims of the amendment, and the clear issue that people who are going about their business not thinking about terrorism become victims. They run small businesses, and then without much ado they go through the terrible attack that we saw on London Bridge. Visiting people was amazing, and I pay tribute to the courage and bravery of the constituents of the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark. When individuals cut across the bridge and ran into people, the first thing the public did was run to help. The best of humanity came out that night, and also some of the worst. Not content with murdering people who came to help, the terrorists then embarked on an attack in Borough market, and we saw unarmed people challenging them and doing their best to make sure that they were not allowed to go any further. Then the police came and took very strong action.

I understand what the amendment tabled by the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark seeks to do, but I have to point out the difference between Pool Re and other insurance companies. Pool Re effectively insures insurers. It is not a customer-facing organisation where we make a claim against it. Individuals make a claim to an insurance company and that company goes to Pool Re, and under certain conditions the claim is paid out. The hon. Gentleman’s amendment would slightly change that relationship.

The amendment also does something that has been alluded to by Opposition Members. Our difference of opinion is about timing. The MIB, the Motor Insurance Bureau, is having a vote as we speak—a postal vote. Can we, as a Government, say to them, “Don’t worry, we’ll step in. Don’t worry about mutualising your risk”? That is ultimately where most countries solve that problem. It is where many other issues around niche insurance—it is pretty niche—is dealt with. The insurance industry mutually insures the risk out of its profits. I am often slightly frustrated by the insurance companies, but we should not forget that the risk of being involved in terrorism is tiny. I have raised this before. One by one, travel insurance companies have dropped covering counter-terrorism. The risk of it is very small and therefore the impact of standard cover for terrorism on profits will be minimal.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ben Wallace and Simon Hoare

Monday 5th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

12. What steps she is taking to protect people from fraud and its effect on families and communities.

[The Minister for Security (Mr Ben Wallace)]

Fraud is a heinous crime, which can have a devastating effect on individuals, families and the most vulnerable members of society. That is why this Government launched the Joint Fraud Taskforce last February with law enforcement and banks, and have committed to spending £1.9 billion over the next five years on cyber-security, including to tackle cyber-enabled fraud.

[Simon Hoare]

I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. What specific assessments has he made of fraud in my area?

[Mr Wallace]

The Joint Fraud Taskforce will obviously cover all of the United Kingdom. Of course, members of the banks and other organisations that are on the taskforce will be involved in ensuring that when people commit fraud, they cannot take the money out of the country, which will provide at least some time to track it down. I congratulate the Dorset police who in 2015 launched a fraud prevention campaign called “Hang up on Fraudsters” after reports that my hon. Friend’s county had lost over £1 million to fraud.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ben Wallace and Simon Hoare

Wednesday 14th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

The Prime Minister has indicated that he is keen to seek further compensation for victims, but of course it is hard to negotiate with a Libyan Government that are not functioning or in existence. I know that a Select Committee of the House is looking at the arrangements made between Tony Blair’s Government and the then Libyan Government.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

2. What steps she is taking to ensure that the Northern Ireland Executive’s financial position is sustainable.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Ben Wallace)]

It is for the Executive to deliver a balanced Budget and sustainable finances. The Stormont House agreement provides a package of measures to help them achieve this. As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has said, it is not extra money that will sort out this crisis; the local parties need to resolve welfare reform disagreements, deal with budgetary pressures and deliver public sector reform.

[Simon Hoare]

Does my hon. Friend accept that in principle it is not acceptable for any of the devolved Administrations simply to breach spending limits agreed with Her Majesty’s Government?

[Mr Wallace]

It is not acceptable for any devolved institution, or indeed any Whitehall Department, to breach spending limits agreed with the Treasury. For that reason, I urge the Northern Ireland parties to resolve their differences, implement the Stormont House agreement and take advantage of the economic package we put together last December to ensure that Northern Ireland goes from strength to strength.