Business of the House

Barry Sheerman Excerpts

Thursday 5th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

The Prime Minister and I have been very clear at the Dispatch Box that we will respect the right of Parliament, as the source of authority, to express a view in relation to the use of military force in any substantial way, save that, as the Prime Minister has rightly made clear, in any emergency or on issues that are urgent or a matter of the defence of the national interest and the security of this country, he must have the right and the discretion to act immediately if he is required to do so.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I remind the Leader of the House that since the last time we met here for business questions a report from the Institute of Economic Affairs has estimated the cost of High Speed 2—a cost that started at £10 billion, went up to £32 billion, then £42 billion, and then £50 billion—at £80 billion. It also reflects on the fact that this could be very damaging to all the regional cities of our country. May we have an early debate on this?

[Mr Lansley]

Let me remind the hon. Gentleman that the House is considering the High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill, which affords further opportunities to consider this. Having looked at what the Institute of Economic Affairs said, it seemed to be one of those reports where if one makes a series of assumptions one can arrive at any conclusion one likes. My right hon. Friend the Transport Secretary has put some very substantial contingencies into the programme to make sure that we can deliver it within budget.

Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Barry Sheerman Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I will give way in a few moments.

Part 1 relates to the creation of a statutory register of consultant lobbyists. Let me be clear, first, that lobbying is a necessary—indeed an inevitable and often welcome—part of policy making and the parliamentary process. We should not seek to prevent lobbying, but to make it transparent who is lobbying whom and for what.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

On that very point, let me assure the Leader of the House that many Opposition Members, particularly myself, believe that lobbying is at the very heart of our democracy. We should have it, but it should be regulated and should be transparent. What worries us is, first, that many charities believe that the Bill will have deleterious effect, but secondly, we are worried about all the people that are left out—the big law firms, for example. Many of those firms are 50% lobbyists and 50% lawyers, yet they will not be tackled by the Bill. Big accountancy firms that are full of lobbyists are the same, as are the in-house lobbyists of these major companies. Why are they being left out of this register?

[Mr Lansley]

I think we agree about the intention, although I would add that Parliament is at the heart of our democracy and lobbying is an essential aspect of the way in which Parliament does its job. It is clear that Members on both sides of the House have been lobbied extensively in relation to the Bill, and rightly so.

We are not leaving out a large number of people who engage in consultant lobbying. If people have a substantial business involving such lobbying, they should register, and that will be made clear.

Business of the House

Barry Sheerman Excerpts

Thursday 4th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

On behalf of my hon. Friend and other Members who share his views, I will raise the matter with my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. My hon. Friend will be aware that our right hon. Friend will not himself have direct access to the papers of the previous Administration, but I will ask him what steps, not least in the context of the continuing inquiry into banking standards, it is appropriate to take to find out more about the circumstances.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Leader of the House consider having a debate as soon as possible on how we restore and achieve a renaissance of the great towns and cities, such as Huddersfield, Leeds and Manchester, in the north and midlands of our country? Does he believe that if there were a £50 billion pot to invest in those cities—a wonderful opportunity—the city leaders would spend it on fast rail to Manchester instead?

[Mr Lansley]

I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman did not acknowledge not only what has already been achieved in some of our great cities, but the importance of the city deals. To take the example of Manchester, the city deal reached there is visionary and far reaching, and if the earn-back scheme does what it is intended to do, it will provide enormous investment in the infrastructure of the city. Other cities across the country—I think Huddersfield is one of them—are bidding for a city deal. This is their opportunity to come forward with a vision for their city—it should be not top-down, but led locally—and the Government are looking to give support to those city deals.

Lobbying

Barry Sheerman Excerpts

Tuesday 25th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

Let me explain a little more, then I will give way again.

There are two ways in which we can go about regulating conduct in political life. We can create a comprehensive rules-based system backed up by intrusive enforcement, to try to specify what everyone should and should not do pretty much all the time. That would be immensely bureaucratic and costly, and would involve a constant effort to keep up. It would create not a culture of openness but a “see what you can get away with” approach.

The other way forward is to be clear about the standards expected, based on the Nolan principles, and to ensure that all those who exercise responsibilities—and all those who seek to influence them—are subject to the necessary transparency in their actions and contacts, and held accountable for their actions, so that we can see who is doing what, and why. For those who seek to influence the political system without the necessary transparency, there will be clear sanctions available.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I think the right hon. Gentleman heard the valid point that my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen) made earlier. This is a complex business. Some of the big legal firms are now half lawyers and half lobbyists, and they say that they will refuse to be involved in the proposed register because of client confidentiality. There are some really big problems, but Members on both sides of the House want to get this right. May we have a pre-legislative inquiry to enable us to do that? This is a really difficult one. We used to think that accountancy firms consisted of auditors and accountants, but look at their track record now that the banks are going to hell in a handcart. Many of those firms do not need lobbyists, because they have been here all the time lobbying as companies. I was quite enthused by the right hon. Gentleman’s opening remarks, but may we have a pre-legislative inquiry to enable us to get this right?

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Gentleman will know that I am an advocate of ensuring that the Government legislate after we have consulted and, whenever possible, sought scrutiny of the proposed legislation. I fear, however, that if we were to go further in regard to pre-legislative scrutiny, we would not be able to legislate in the time frame we have set out. We published draft clauses, and the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee produced a report on them that was not wholly supportive. I completely understand that. We have reflected—at length, I freely admit—on what the Committee said, and I believe that we will now be able to proceed with the Bill. It might not meet everyone’s objectives, but it will do what is necessary to create the clarity, transparency and openness that form the basis for us to ensure that public confidence is achieved.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Lansley]

I thought I had made it clear on many occasions that what we are setting out to do in the Bill is to create a statutory register of lobbyists in the context of seeking to make absolutely clear where a third-party influence is being exercised in relation to Ministers. I used to be Secretary of State for Health, as Members will recall. We published our diaries of meetings and when the British Medical Association came to see me, nobody was under any illusions about why it did so. That applies, too, to the Royal College of Nurses, other royal colleges, the Patients Association, the NHS Federation—the list is endless. There was no doubt about the nature of the representations from people associated with many of these organisations. Where a lobbying company is seeking to influence Ministers, the permanent secretary or whomever it might be, the issue is knowing who their clients are. That is where the gap lies, and that is what we are focusing on. [Interruption.] I do not know about Fred Michel in that sense.

[Mr Sheerman]

Will the Leader of the House give way?

[Mr Lansley]

For the last time.

[Mr Sheerman]

I can give a straightforward answer in that I believe our shadow Ministers should publish their diaries; I see nothing wrong with that. The right hon. Gentleman has bounced that issue on us, but I imagine that most serious Labour Members—and most of them are serious—would say yes to that. Let me press the right hon. Gentleman on this point. All the groups he mentioned lobbied him, quite legitimately, when he was Secretary of State for Health, but the key issue is whether this lobbying register will go right across the sort of people that lobbied him, including the lawyers, the accountants and the big companies, so that everybody is included in the register—not just a tiny circle of professional lobbying companies representing only about 25% of the lobbying industry.

[Mr Lansley]

With respect, I think the hon. Gentleman has missed the point, which I have already made. The gap lies where Ministers, permanent secretaries and—I hope his hon. Friends will take the matter up—shadow Ministers need to set out whom they meet and for what purpose, and on whose behalf they are being met. When I met members of the BMA and the RCN, we were under no illusions about that. If I were to meet representatives of a lobbying company that had a client in an industry and we did not know who the client was, we would not have the necessary degree of transparency. That is what we are talking about: ensuring that we have the maximum transparency.

[Mr Sheerman]

rose—

[Mr Lansley]

I have already given way to the hon. Gentleman twice. I am grateful to him for agreeing with what I said, but those on his own Opposition Front Bench will not—

[Mr Sheerman]

rose—

[Mr Lansley]

I am sorry, but I will not give way again. [Interruption.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The Leader of the House has made it clear that he will not give way. The hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) has a beatific smile on his face, but he has been in the House for 34 years, and he knows that a Member cannot make a point by means of an intervention if the Member who is on his or her feet will not give way.

[Mr Sheerman]

I was being helpful.

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman chunters from a sedentary position that he was being helpful, but I think that his concept of helpfulness is not necessarily shared.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)]

I echo earlier comments made about lobbying. I have always supported a lobbying Bill to create a register of lobbyists in a transparent and properly regulated way, but I have no objection to lobbying per se. It is part of everyday life—or it should be if we are doing our jobs properly. We get lobbied on a weekly basis, on all sorts of issues, by church groups, mosques, gurdwaras, temples, community groups and all sorts of individuals. A woman came to see me a couple of weeks ago and said, “You are opposed to the sell-off of the Royal Mail, aren’t you?” When I said that I was, she said, “Well, on that basis you should also be opposed to gay marriage.” I did not quite follow the logic of that argument either, but she had the right to lobby me, and she did so, albeit in a novel way.

What worries me is when large concentrations of unaccountable wealth and power are brought to bear in the lobbying industry. Funnily enough, Jonathan Aitken said something similar when he was an MP and large business consortiums were lobbying for the contract to build the Channel tunnel. At that time lobbying was in full swing, and he—surprisingly in the light of subsequent events—said:

“What worries me most is that usually lobbying is genuine in the sense that it stems from little interest groups and concerned citizens. Here we see the Panzer divisions of big business, their heavy artillery and tanks trampling over all the small people’s interests which I want to see better defended.”

Most of us would probably want to see those interests better defended and certainly the Prime Minister seemed to want to see that three years ago when he said that lobbying would be the “next big scandal” to hit British politics. Lobbying has been the perennial scandal in British politics within living memory and probably before that, too.

The Prime Minister’s reference to lobbying was three years ago and since then we have seen two private Members’ Bills. One was in my name, and I offered it to the Leader of the House as a Government Bill, but he was a bit shy about taking it on. The other was in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty). We also saw a Government consultation followed by countless commitments from various Ministers that a Bill would be produced, as we are always told, “in the near future.” Last year, the then Parliamentary Secretary, the hon. Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper), promised a Bill before he was moved in the reshuffle. His successor, the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, the hon. Member for Norwich North (Miss Smith), is on the Treasury Bench and has, I believe, promised a Bill twice on the Floor of the House—but there is still no Bill.

The Prime Minister has repeatedly promised a Bill in Prime Minister’s questions over the past three years and after the last lobbying scandal a few weeks ago, the Deputy Prime Minister promised what he called “head to toe” political reform, including a register of lobbyists. That was on 3 June. I have no idea what he meant by that, but I suspect that he did not have much more of an idea what he meant either—he never normally does.

We still have no Bill, yet the scandals come regularly and frequently. Only last year, the treasurer of the Tory party, Peter Cruddas—we will all remember this—had to resign after promising access to the Prime Minister for a fee of £250,000. Months before that, Tim Collins, a not particularly lamented Member of this House, promised access to just about everybody and anybody in the Government.

We can go back before that. I have mentioned lobbying scandals in living memory, but probably the doyenne of political lobbyists from the 1930s and 1940s up until the 1970s was Commander Christopher Powell. His name is probably not familiar now, but years ago he was very well known and for a number of years he had an office in the House of Commons. It sounds extraordinary today that a political lobbyist who represented all sorts of clients should have an office in this place, but he did for quite a long time.

Members might remember the scandals attached to Ian Greer in the 1980s, which eventually made the front pages of just about the entire national press as well as the broadcast media in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Let us be balanced: there was also the cash for access scandal that involved Derek Draper, another person who is not particularly lamented by Opposition Members—at least, I hope he is not. I can say that with some passion, having dealt with him years ago.

As I said earlier, I by no means condemn the political lobbying industry. In fact, I suspect that most lobbyists do a decent job, do it honestly and are perfectly prepared to be transparent about it, but there is always the temptation to cross certain lines unless accountability and transparency are built into the system.

[Mr Sheerman]

Speaker after speaker has talked about the importance of openness, transparency and accountability. I absolutely agree with that, but does my hon. Friend agree that we should also allow the little person, not just the well-heeled and well-suited person, to lobby? Lobbying should be open to everyone; the problem is that too often those who can afford to pay a lot of money can lobby more effectively.

[John Cryer]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question, but I think I covered that at the beginning of my speech. Most of us these days hold regular advice surgeries—for me, and, probably, for most right hon. and hon. Members on both sides of the House such surgeries are a weekly business.

The days when MPs never went near their constituencies and did not regard themselves as constituency Members are long gone. There was once a national MP for Blackpool called Walter de Frece who, despite the fact that he was the Member for Blackpool, never went near the place. In fact, he could not find it on a map. He struggled to find Britain on a map, because he lived in Monte Carlo. He came to Britain twice a year for the Budget debate and for Ascot, yet he was elected for years and years and was regarded as a successful constituency MP. While he was here, he would get a pile of House of Commons notepaper and sign the bottom, and then his secretary would fill in the rest. It sounds extraordinary, but because he managed to reply to a few letters—this shows how things have changed—he was regarded as a particularly brilliant constituency MP. Nowadays, that has changed beyond all recognition—not even in the safest seat could an MP from any party get away with such behaviour.

Let me return to the demands that I think the register should place on lobbyists. The criterion that it should only cover third-party lobbyists is unfair on the third-party lobbying industry. In-house lobbyists—that covers all sorts of organisations and companies—should be forced to provide information, which, as I said when I intervened on the Leader of the House, should include financial information. Big companies, wealthy organisations and even wealthy individuals can spend millions on lobbying, and that sort of information should be available.

Business of the House

Barry Sheerman Excerpts

Thursday 20th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I understand my hon. Friend’s point, not least because FE colleges in my constituency and adjoining it have raised exactly that point with me too. It is, of course, a matter of available resources, but even before the spending review, if he were to catch your eye, Mr Speaker, he might have an opportunity to raise the matter with Education Ministers at Question Time on Monday.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Leader of the House will agree that the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards has produced rather a good report, but it leads us to conclude that there is unfinished business over what went wrong with our banking sector. May we have an early debate on the really sad state of the accountancy profession and the auditing process in this country? It is high time we got to the heart of the matter.

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Gentleman is right about the commission: it has produced an important and welcome report. He might like to raise these issues at Treasury questions on Tuesday, if he has an opportunity, but notwithstanding that, as I said, I have not yet been able to announce the timing for consideration of the Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill, which touches on these issues. I would add—this touches on accountancy and other professions related to financial services—that the commission has established, and the Government agree absolutely, that there is no competition between high standards in financial services and global competitiveness. The appalling events of 2008 and their aftermath, including their impact worldwide, demonstrate that global competitiveness, including the trust, credibility and competitiveness of major financial centres, depends on setting and maintaining high banking and financial services standards.

Business of the House

Barry Sheerman Excerpts

Thursday 13th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, with the G8 summit happening in the days ahead. I hope the Prime Minister will be able to report to the House next Wednesday on that, and I hope he will be able to report on unprecedented co-operation internationally in eliminating tax evasion and reducing abuse and avoidance of tax internationally through international mechanisms. I hope that will include British overseas territories. I know that Bermuda has reiterated, including this morning, its wish to form part of what is an unprecedented international effort to tackle international tax avoidance.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

In a week when we learn that three of the science museums in the north are under threat, may we have a major debate on the overweening, unhealthy dominance of London and the south-east, which is sapping the life-blood out of the other cities and other regions in this country?

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Gentleman was here last week and will have heard some of the exchanges on that point. Colleagues on both sides of the House have set out how strongly they feel about the contribution made by some of our national museums, particularly those relating to science and technology, railways and coal mining. Of course, his persuasion and influence no doubt encouraged Opposition Front Benchers to choose the contribution of the creative arts in the regions as the subject for the Opposition day debate next week.

Business of the House

Barry Sheerman Excerpts

Thursday 6th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend takes a fantastic opportunity to promote Plymouth’s ambitions in that regard. Being from East Anglia, it is not for me to judge these matters, but having been in Massachusetts and gone to Plimoth Plantation, it seems obvious where those who named it that way thought they had come from.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Mr Speaker, you know that I am not a puritan or killjoy, but like most Members of Parliament I think that the betting and gambling industry is out of control in this country. Fixed-odds betting terminals and bookies are proliferating in every deprived part of our country, and online gambling is destroying lives. Is it not about time that the House tackled the scourge of betting shops, which often sit next to payday loan shops? They are preying on the poorest people in our country, and it is about time that the House was aware of it and acted to regulate this industry which is out of control.

Business of the House

Barry Sheerman Excerpts

Thursday 16th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. I will ask my hon. Friends at the Department for Education to respond directly to her, but from my recollection—I was a member of the Standing Committee on the Protection of Children Act 1999—the barring scheme applies not simply to acts of negligence or abuse, but to omissions in relation to acts of abuse. In that sense, the guidance is quite strong. People who are in positions of responsibility for children should act if they see evidence of abuse or they will risk being barred from working in a responsible position.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Leader of the House will share my concern that I did not come high up in the ballot for private Members’ Bills. I will content myself with an early debate, if he could arrange it, on the accountancy and auditing profession. Is he not concerned by the increasing evidence that the auditors of great banks have failed us? They never blew the whistle and they never did the auditing job properly. We are now in a situation where KPMG’s senior partner is the chair of the new Financial Conduct Authority. Will the right hon. Gentleman arrange an early debate so that the House can scrutinise this scandal?

[Mr Lansley]

Given the range of aspects involved, the hon. Gentleman may find that this is a suitable subject not only for an Adjournment debate but for consideration by the Backbench Business Committee, given its reconstitution. Members across the House with a range of interests in the auditing process would then have the opportunity to air them.

Business of the House

Barry Sheerman Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I understand why my hon. Friend’s constituent might have been disappointed by that turn of events. I regret that I have to say that the answer to his question is no, because apparently neither domestic regulations nor the underpinning European legislation makes any provision for such an exemption to the requirements. I am sorry to have to disappoint my hon. Friend, and I recognise why he feels for his constituent.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Leader of the House agree that this is a time to reflect on issues that we have not addressed properly during the Session? Does he agree that one of those—I wonder whether there is any time to consider this in the few hours left to us—is the rights of women? There is an exhibition on slavery in the Upper Waiting Hall, and who would have thought that we would be told that that exists in this country today? We are now aware that female genital mutilation is reasonably widespread in this country and that women in our communities are prevented from voting. Is it not about time that we talked about the rights of women to education and a full life? Who would have thought that, in the 21st century, we would have to discuss such issues?

[Mr Lansley]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising those issues. In the course of this Session important debates have taken place relating to a number of them. I recall in particular the time that was allocated by the Backbench Business Committee around international women’s day and in anticipation of it, focusing on violence against women and violence in conflict situations. The hon. Gentleman will be aware of how my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs has raised that through our leadership of the G8. He will no doubt be aware of the many steps taken by the Under-Secretary of State for International Development, the hon. Member for Hornsey and Wood Green (Lynne Featherstone) to support action in relation to female genital mutilation. I share with the hon. Gentleman and many Members of the House the outrage at the extent of modern slavery in this country, as illustrated and informed by the exhibition in the Upper Waiting Hall. I attended its launch, which the Prime Minister undertook on Monday. The all-party group and Anthony Steen have done an important piece of work in bringing that exhibition here so that we can debate those issues.

Business of the House

Barry Sheerman Excerpts

Thursday 18th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am glad my hon. Friend raises that point, because I think it will be of concern to Members across the House. In all our constituencies we look to local authorities to exercise their community responsibilities. That is particularly the case at present, as local authorities have growth incentives that they can use to support not only enterprise locally but important community facilities. I therefore hope what my hon. Friend has said will be heard not only in this House but in the chamber of his council.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am sure both you, Mr Speaker, and the Leader of the House will agree that the future of our country depends greatly on entrepreneurs, entrepreneurship and business start-ups, and that many small businesses have been ill served by the banking sector in this country over a number of years. Is the Leader of the House aware that many small business start-ups are now using crowd financing for funding? That is a new way of regenerating our economies and communities, but is he also aware that the Financial Conduct Authority will introduce a regulation on that in about three weeks’ time—on 14 May, I think? Only a very small number of people have been consulted on it. People with crowd funding expertise in relation to start-up businesses have not been consulted, and neither has this House been consulted on a measure that is vital to the future of enterprise.

[Mr Lansley]

I completely endorse what the hon. Gentleman says about the importance of start-ups, and in the last year for which figures are available more new businesses were created in this country than in any of the previous 20 years. It is important that we continue to support start-ups, however, and the availability of finance is central to the success of new businesses. I am aware that new businesses are increasingly using crowd financing and other innovative sources of funding, although I was not aware of the details relating to any FCA regulation. I will ask my hon. Friends at the Treasury to write to the hon. Gentleman about that, and to let us know about the processes for the scrutiny of any such regulation.