ISIS: British People

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Sheehan

Wednesday 23rd October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I agree about the dangers of the recruitment of children and the dangers of them being left. I hope that I made clear in my response to the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, some of the things we are trying to do to ensure that children who are British citizens are returned home safely. We absolutely recognise the real danger and that is why urgent conversations are going on, some of which I simply cannot discuss at the Dispatch Box.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, if the Government propose to take only British children and not their British mothers, what assessment have they made of the probable fate of those mothers?

Migrant Crossings

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Sheehan

Monday 7th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Also, the safe and legal route to refuge is to seek asylum in the first country in which you arrive in Europe. That is the safest route. We do not want to encourage people to resort to what is, as he says, the most dangerous routes. It is right that we protect our borders but it is also right that people seeking asylum do so in the first safe country in which they arrive.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, I am a little concerned about some of the phrases used in the Statement. “People who choose to make the crossing” are words that appear more than once. I get the impression that the Government still believe that pull factors are the reason why people risk their lives to come to Britain. Am I right? If so, what evidence exists to substantiate this viewpoint? From where I sit, it seems to me that people would not choose to leave France in a rubber dinghy with their loved ones to cross the channel and pay smugglers for the privilege unless they felt that they had no choice.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I think it is important to pause for a moment to think about who benefits from smugglers taking people across the channel from a safe country. Those who benefit are organised criminals. If people choose to cross, they have chosen to cross from one safe country to another. The noble Baroness shakes her head, but she makes the point that people choose to travel from France to the UK.

Refugees (Family Reunion) Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Sheehan

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 11th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I do not dispute a word of what the noble Lord says—that people’s intention in coming here is to flee the terrible things happening in their countries. I am saying that we have all seen the horrible pictures of children who have made these journeys and have either died or got themselves into terrible danger on the way. We talk about this often.

[Baroness Sheehan]

Is the Minister aware that the independent inquiry of the Human Trafficking Foundation in July last year found exactly the reverse of what she said? It found that the fewer safe and legal routes there are to process asylum seekers and refugees, the more power the smugglers have.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am slightly confused by what the noble Baroness is saying. I do not think that anyone would dispute that a child sent across the Mediterranean is very vulnerable to traffickers. I will give an example of what I mean by that. Immediately following the recent UK-France Sandhurst summit and the press reports suggesting a further transfer of minors to the UK, the number of children arriving in Calais more than doubled, from 59 to 137. There is no disputing that children who travel alone like that are in danger from all sorts of unintended consequences of our wanting to give them support and refuge. Although civil war or persecution is the absolute deciding factor in whether an individual flees their country, as the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, said, it does not explain the decisions made in undertaking dangerous secondary movements.

This Government have invested significantly in supporting the most vulnerable refugees through our resettlement programmes. These are safe and legal routes to protection and are designed to keep families together without the need for migrants to embark on dangerous journeys or to put their children in the hands of criminals who exploit them. We should not create potentially perverse incentives outside of those schemes, as this Bill proposes.

Nor must we lose sight of how the family reunion policy fits within wider asylum and resettlement work. I am glad to see the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, in his place, because that includes implementing Section 67 of the Immigration Act 2016. The Government have committed to the transfer of 480 unaccompanied children from Europe to the UK under Section 67. Over 220 children are already here and transfers are ongoing. This is in addition to current commitments under the Dublin regulation. Work continues with member states and relevant partners to ensure that children with qualifying family in the UK can be transferred quickly and safely to have their asylum claim determined in the UK.

There has been much debate about what will happen after we leave the EU if the family reunification provisions under the Dublin regulation are no longer available. Retaining the family reunification provisions of the Dublin regulation post EU exit was the subject of the recent amendment to the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Dubs. I state again that the Dublin regulation does not confer immigration status; it is a mechanism for deciding the member state responsible for considering an asylum claim. Anyone transferred under the Dublin regulation will be expected to leave the UK if they are found not to need protection. The family reunion rules will continue to enable immediate family members to reunite safely with their loved ones in the UK, regardless of the country in which those family members are based.

Finally, the Bill makes provision for legal aid to be reinstated for family reunion cases. The Government are currently undertaking a comprehensive review of legal aid reforms, including an assessment of the changes to the scope of legal aid for immigration cases. The review will report later this year. It is important that we do not introduce legislation that pre-empts the outcome of that review, which needs to run its course.

Immigration Act 2016

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Sheehan

Wednesday 19th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, we are receiving conflicting statements from the Government and local authorities. Will the Minister update the House on her department’s working relationship with local authorities based on, first, evidence presented recently to the High Court by Help Refugees that local authorities had the capacity to accept a far greater number of unaccompanied minors than have currently been accepted? Secondly, freedom of information requests have shown that local councils have voluntarily offered to accept 1,572 more children in addition to those they already support. Does the Minister acknowledge this? In the light of this information, will the Government reopen Dubs and take their fair share of these children, who are at such risk that, according to Oxfam, 28 children a day are going missing from Italy alone?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The Government have consulted fully with local authorities. We held roadshows up and down the country. The FOI response to which the noble Baroness has referred talks, I think, about spare capacity for 784 unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. These figures are entirely at odds with our consultation and do not reflect capacity among local authorities. Over recent weeks and months there has been a lot of misunderstanding about the purpose of the 0.07% threshold to which I assume she is referring. It is neither a target for the number of unaccompanied asylum-seeking children that we would expect to see in a local authority area, nor is it an assessment of a local authority’s capacity to accommodate unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. It is an indication of when a local authority is caring for a disproportionate number of such children, as some local authorities are, and when we would expect to see them transfer away from that authority. Drawing conclusions about local authority capacity by automatically assigning them from their 0.07% threshold is a flawed methodology which fails to reflect existing capacity.

Child Refugees

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Sheehan

Thursday 29th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord asked first about Dublin III and what those regulations might look like in the future. We will always co-operate with our European partners in terms of taking unaccompanied children and asylum seekers into this country. It is important to note—the noble Lord alluded to this—that some of these children have to travel many miles. The work that we do in the regions is in many ways more beneficial to these children. There is a huge economy of scale both in financial terms and in the welfare of these children—as well as adults—for them to be helped in the region.

The noble Lord has brought up the issue of missing children before. Of course we work with Europol. When a child is in a European country, that child or adult is the responsibility of that country and we cannot intervene in countries without abiding by the laws and processes of those countries.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, the chaotic demolition of the Jungle camp in Calais last October culminated in hundreds of unaccompanied minors being dispersed to hastily knocked-up centres in France. Those centres were closed in February and to my certain knowledge a good number of those children, with legal rights to come to the UK, are nevertheless still wandering around France living a hand-to- mouth existence. Will the Minister see to it that the Home Office completes the assessment process which was started but never concluded in respect of these children?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I do not decry what the noble Baroness is saying, but as I have just said to the noble Lord, if a child is in France, that child is the responsibility of the French authorities. I have said this many times and I reiterate it now. But I would also say to her that this Government stand willing to help in the process of resettling children. On the point about the demolition of the camps and children wandering around France, I would love the noble Baroness to give me any evidence she has of that. She knows that I respond to and follow up on the emails she sends to me, and I am happy to do that, but evidence is what we need. We can then work with our counterparts. However, we cannot just go into France and start moving and removing children as we would want.