Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill Debate

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Department: Department of Health and Social Care
Lord Carlile of Berriew Portrait Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB)
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My Lords, I will raise a practical problem, which I urge the noble and learned Lord to address, in connection with care homes and nursing homes. The problem has been drawn to my attention—and, I think, that of other noble Lords—by a letter received today from the charity Mission Care, which has 300 staff in and around London and looks after 230 residents, some of whom might wish to apply for assisted death. The point that Mission Care makes is that its staff, by reason of the fact that Mission Care is a committed Christian organisation, en bloc would not be willing to take part in assisted death under the Bill. The effect of that, says Mission Care, is that it would have to close, thereby depriving people of the quality care that they have in those institutions.

I know that the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, has a visceral opposition to anything arising from the European Convention on Human Rights. However, I have known the noble Lord long enough, and have enough affection for him, to know that he is very practical and that if the European Convention on Human Rights will assist his argument, he will be very ready to adopt it—so I ask him to be patient with me. These amendments, particularly Amendments 110 and 112, which I support, would take the process out of nursing homes and residential homes and into the hands of outsiders.

It is not just a question of Mission Care. Among all the many residential and nursing homes up and down the country, there will be very large numbers of staff who would wish to take advantage of Clause 31(1), which says:

“No person is under any duty to participate in the provision of assistance in accordance with this Act”.


It is the opt-out, and a very important opt-out that I know the noble and learned Lord is committed to as part of his Bill.

If we find that, in nursing homes and residential homes around the country, a significant proportion of staff wish to take advantage of Clause 31(1)—or Section 31(1) if the Bill becomes an Act—it will cause real difficulties for residential and nursing homes. There will be division among their staff, and it may be that those divisions make it very difficult for them to play any part whatever in this scheme if it is made law. I invite the noble and learned Lord to consider this issue further to ensure that those staff are not put in a very difficult position in the exercise of their consciences.

Baroness Watkins of Tavistock Portrait Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)
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I want to draw attention to the fact that I raised this issue two days previously in Committee. It is essential that we retain staff, particularly nursing staff, who would object to anything to do with assisted dying. That can be achieved, as I said earlier, by enabling people, when they do their advance directives, to be very clear if they never want to have this discussed with them, which I think is completely fair. Nursing homes must also be able to be very clear that they want nothing to do with this in their marketing materials. That is a bit of a tough word, but I think it is real. We must respect the faith and choice of healthcare staff as well as patients or, in this case, residents and their relatives.

However, the vast majority of people who are in long-term care homes rather than nursing homes have cognitive disability, which means that they will not be eligible in this event. It is in the very high-tech nursing homes where people who have very complicated issues might want to choose assisted dying—it might be a 52 year-old with complex disease. I can see that noble Lords want me to hurry up, but I just want to be absolutely clear that we need to get this in context.

Lord Carlile of Berriew Portrait Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB)
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I am grateful to my noble friend for that intervention. She has raised three points, and I want to answer all three quickly. On point one, I absolutely agree with her: we have to respect the views of staff, particularly views that are a combination of professional and philosophical principles. Taking this process out of the nursing home, in accordance with Amendments 110 and 112, does exactly that.

Secondly, advance directives are quite an esoteric issue. I echo what the noble Lord, Lord Deben, said, based on his experience as a Member of another place. There are a number of us here who used to go to nursing homes and residential homes at least twice a year, sometimes taking our children with us to add good cheer. We came out with very different impressions of those homes: the good, the indifferent and, in one or two cases, the really bad. We have to take that into account. In some of those homes, there is practically nobody with an advance directive. Advance directives on the whole are a middle-class thing. Probably most of us here have advance directives of some kind or another, which one has to pay one’s solicitor to produce; one has to pay a lot of money in London, happily rather less out in the provinces. Where there are advance directives, that is fine, but not everybody has them.

I have spoken to the third point, which related to the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Deben. I repeat that I am making an extremely practical point that ought to be addressed. If this responsibility lies with nursing homes, then it will cause immense difficulty. Also, there is always the risk in the really bad residential and nursing homes that people will be subject to undue influence in the unusual atmospheres of such institutions.