Nationality and Borders Bill

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Lords Hansard - Part 2 & Committee stage
Thursday 27th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

Of course there are home-grown people trying to do harm to our British citizens, but this is one of a number of powers to try to reduce high harm activity against the people of this country.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

As a follow-on from the noble Baroness’s question, I have a question that I asked in my initial intervention. Why should they be treated differently? Say one person is involved in serious organised crime, such as major drug dealing, child trafficking or sex trafficking offences, and another person commits exactly that same offence, and say both of them were born in the United Kingdom, raised in the United Kingdom, have never lived anywhere else and have never taken citizenship of any other country. If they commit exactly the same crime, why should one be told to leave and the other not?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, what I think I have tried to explain today—and it will be obvious that are clearly differences between us—is that, where the highest harm individuals can rely on another citizenship, the Home Secretary has within his or her power the ability to remove that citizenship. Of course, the one citizenship that is protected is when someone is only a British citizen and of no other territory.

Health Measures at UK Borders

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 4th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I think there should be a principle we accept that if people are fined, they have been not only acting against the law but putting the lives of other people in danger. I take the point about students being able to pay fines, but there is an obligation on each and every one of us to keep each other safe. On the noble Lord’s point about the BAME community, there is obvious evidence that the community is suffering more in terms of symptoms and illness than the population at large. The way in which we all behave has an effect on the well-being, or otherwise, of our BAME friends in this country.

[Baroness Warsi (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I start by paying tribute to my noble friend the Minister, who has been working a gruelling schedule in very difficult circumstances for many months now. Much of what I was due to raise has already been raised by my noble friends Lady Gardner of Parkes, Lady Wheatcroft and Lord Randall, but may I press my noble friend? The Government announced the new rules about overseas travel on 4 January, some five weeks ago, yet it still does not seem clear what current checks are in place to ensure that those travelling to and from the UK are doing so only for necessary and essential travel. Does she, for example, have any figures on how many passengers have been prevented from boarding flights since the new criteria were introduced? What are the checks to ensure that the passenger locator forms are accurately and truthfully completed, so that the system we have in place is effective?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My noble friend is right about the importance of the passenger locator forms being accurate and people being honest, and of some of those follow-up checks, with enforcement if necessary. As I said to earlier speakers, those checks are being stepped up. People are flouting the rules because they do not think they apply to them. As the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, said, 109,000 people have died, and it is very important that people stick to the rules so that we can protect the NHS and save lives.

Children: Online Grooming

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 2nd December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I can guess at several of the factors, but one might be the ever-increasing use of encryption, so that not only can parents not see what their children are doing, but nor can the local authority or, actually, the internet providers themselves. This is at the heart of what the Home Secretary and Five Eyes partners are trying to discourage going forward.

[Baroness Warsi (Con) [V]]

My Lords, following up on the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, my noble friend may be aware that Facebook and Facebook-owned apps such as Instagram and WhatsApp account for more than 50% of online abuse. What conversations are specifically taking place with Facebook in relation to its platforms being the preferred method and platform for this kind of abuse?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

Well, Messenger, which is a Facebook app, had not to date been encrypted, but Facebook has announced its intention to encrypt Messenger from, I think, next year. This is precisely the type of discussion that the Home Secretary and Five Eyes partners are having with Facebook, because not only will law enforcement bodies and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in the US not be able to look at what is going on there, but nor will Facebook itself, and that is the crucial thing here.

Migrant Women: Domestic Abuse

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 23rd November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

We listened very carefully to the Joint Committee’s recommendations. I will discuss with colleagues whether there is any discrimination inherent in the scheme. While it will be in force for only four months, we fully intend to roll it out far beyond March. I will keep the noble Baroness updated, and certainly take back her point about discrimination within the scheme.

[Baroness Warsi (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the destitution domestic violence concession is a limited way in which some of these women can access some support, but can the Minister confirm how long it currently takes for such applications to be considered, and for a payment to be made to these vulnerable women?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I cannot confirm the time but, particularly during Covid, our intention is to get funds to people and to lift any restrictions on recourse to public funds as quickly as possible, so that those people—mostly women—get the support that they need when they need it.

UK Terrorism Threat Level

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 10th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate is right to say that places of worship should be not only places of sanctuary but places where people are not attacked because of their religion. We have funding for places of worship through the protective security grant. As to guidance, we work very closely with the police. He brought to my mind the “punish a Muslim” day, and the way in which the police gave comfort and reassurance to communities was exemplary. In fact, I visited various places of worship in Greater Manchester, where the police calmed a very nervous community.

[Baroness Warsi (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I add my thoughts and prayers to those of colleagues for those who have lost loved ones during the recent terrorist attacks in France, Austria and, more recently, Kabul University in Afghanistan, where, tragically, 22 people lost their lives. Terrorism is a violent manifestation of extremism, so how do the Government define extremism? Are any forms of extremism specifically defined? In light of the “nasty mix” of threats recently identified by the head of MI5, Ken McCallum, does the definition cover the wide and diverse threats that we now face?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, our definition of extremism, as I know my noble friend knows, is

“vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs.”

I think my noble friend was asking whether there are any specific forms of extremism that are not covered. We have a government definition but not a legal definition of extremism, as she knows. However, in broad-brush terms, it covers a working definition of extremism.

Immigration: Detainee Support

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 7th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I do not agree with the noble Baroness that detention is inhumane. Detention, in the main, is for the purposes of removal. Clearly, at this time, removal is far more difficult than it would usually be, and we are trying to grant bail where it is safe to do so.

[Baroness Warsi (Con) [V]]

My Lords, my question follows that of the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan. What has clearly been shown during the Covid period is that the number of immigration detainees has reduced significantly, by some 900 individuals since December of last year. Indeed, it is now one of the lowest numbers we have had since the previous decade. What lessons have been learned from this reduction in the number of immigration detainees? Can my noble friend assure the House that this positive move will continue as lockdown eases?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness points to our wish to avoid immigration detention at all costs. It is for the purposes of removal when the right of appeal has been exhausted and there is no other prospect of removing people. One lesson we have learned is how humane this country is. We have taken in people from Greece, which, I think, no other European country has been able to. I am very proud of that position.

Reading Terrorist Attack

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 23rd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I have already gone through the figures for CT policing and for policing in general. I am sure the noble Baroness will have heard them. I am confident that our security and intelligence services have the resources they need. I concur with what the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, said about keeping people under surveillance. Not everything can be solved by legislation, but intelligence-led information is incredibly important. It will be at the heart of how we go forward so that people who are a danger to themselves and to others do not slip through the net.

[Baroness Warsi (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I endorse the comments of all the Front-Benchers and particularly those of the noble Lord, Lord Paddick. The challenge of the lone wolf attack was addressed recently by Met Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu. It is a real and growing threat. How can the Government seek the support of a community that it needs to deal with these challenges when it simply refuses to work with that community? My noble friend is aware from her own connections with the community that this is an issue, especially when this refusal of the Government to engage is ideological and political and neither factual nor practical. To tackle terrorism we need to work together. When and how is the Government’s policy of disengagement going to change?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The Government have been very clear that we will engage with people and communities that share our common values and wish to see a society that is safe for everybody. The Government keep decisions about disengagement under regular review, but it is very difficult to engage with those who wish to do us harm or do not share the common values of the wider society in which we live.

Public Order

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 9th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I echo the sentiments of my noble friend and the noble Lords, Lord Rosser and Lord Paddick. As someone who has both family and friends in the police, I know the amazing work that our police do every day in this country. However, does my noble friend accept that what we saw in the small incidents of public disorder were simply the symptoms of racism, not the disease, which results in the inequalities that the protests are about? We have had the Lammy review, the Williams report and indeed the race disparity audit, which reported back in 2017. Could my noble friend give words of hope and practical examples of what the Government are doing to deal with the disease of racism that feeds the inequalities which resulted in the public disorder?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I agree with my noble friend that what we saw on Sunday was a symptom of the frustration that people feel about racism, both overt and covert, within our country. We need more diversity in the workplace, in Parliament and in all sorts of areas of life. My noble friend will have heard the Prime Minister addressing the public yesterday about this and talking about how across government we need to drive this out. This is not about one particular department of government or one particular individual; it is about a public collective in terms of driving this sort of poison out of our society.

Anti-terrorism Policy

Debate between Baroness Warsi and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 17th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, as I said, we do not intend to institute an inquiry into this website. If he so wishes, the noble Lord can refer the website to the counterterrorism referral unit that looks at websites that might contravene counterterrorism legislation, to have it taken down. But freedom of speech is not an excuse to break the law or to stir up hatred. It is right that hate speech is not acceptable in this country.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, it is interesting to hear once again the House talk about Islam; we seem to do nothing but talk about Islam, especially the noble Lord. Does the Minister accept that, at a time when households up and down the country, and indeed around the world, are concerned about their lives and livelihoods, it is unusual for this House to be discussing a website whose main role appears to be division and hate, when what we should be doing in this House is showing leadership by demonstrating community and tolerance? Are the Minister and the Home Office concerned that a number of people who write for this website have been excluded from entering the United Kingdom because they are considered as not being conducive to the public good?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

To answer my noble friend’s last question first, I had a brief look at the website, and it does not look like the sort of website that I would want to derive any information from. She is absolutely right in what she said about showing leadership at this time. One thing I saw on the news the other day was Muslims in, I think, Leeds, making up bags of food for older people who could not get out of their homes. On her point about those concerned with their livelihoods, we know in times of difficulty where our friends are.