Transport: Buses

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Cormack

Thursday 24th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, in relation to a point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, will my noble friend the Minister try to ensure that all new buses have details of concessionary fares on the side?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I shall certainly take that very good point back to the department. It is also important to make sure that we make the most of the data that local operators have about their buses and collate it in one place, so that people can see information about where their bus is, and how much it will cost them, when they get on it.

Railways: Trans-Pennine Freight

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Cormack

Monday 7th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank the noble Lord for his question but, of course, it is not either/or; the two must be developed together. We often end up looking at a single mode for freight; what we must do is look at all the options, which will include road and, obviously, rail. But he brings up an important point. We will look very closely at cross-modal freight across the country in a strategy for the future starting this autumn.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, as we are moving around the country, I take this opportunity to thank my noble friend’s predecessor for the new services which begin a fortnight today: four trains a day between Lincoln and London and, from December, six trains a day. I also renew the invitation to her and her colleagues to pay a visit to Lincoln on one of these trains in the fairly near future.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank my noble friend for his intervention. I was not aware that we were anywhere near Lincoln, but I am happy to discuss it. I am grateful for his words of thanks. These are just some examples of the extra services that the Government are putting back on the track. I will take noble Lords back up north: on the Northern and TransPennine Express franchises, we are delivering extra capacity of 40,000 passengers a week across 2,000 services.

Brexit: No-deal Ferry Contracts

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 1st May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I am pleased to be able to tell the noble Lord that we have reached a settlement with the ferry companies, as I pointed out earlier, and that the termination fees are £43.8 million. It is clear that we have co-operated with the ferry companies, and we are grateful to them for the amount of mitigation that they have been able to do to reduce the amount of money that we have had to pay. We have had negotiations with them. We tried to sell as many tickets as possible to reduce the cost to the taxpayer and the ferry companies have cancelled sailings. We are grateful for their co-operation and believe that this is a fair settlement of the contract.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, if it is necessary, which I hope it is not, to take out further insurance policies of this nature, can we be absolutely sure that the ferry companies that we contract with will actually have some ferries?

Privatised Probation System

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Cormack

Monday 4th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, for his comments. The NAO report made a number of very long-standing criticisms, of which we were, of course, already aware. We have taken action to respond to those criticisms, many of which I hope to come to in other answers. The noble Lord asked specifically about reoffending. As I mentioned in my opening statement, it is a very complex and difficult issue to solve; certainly, we are approaching it from a cross-government perspective. The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster recently established the cross-government Reducing Reoffending Board, which brings together senior Ministers from all relevant departments to tackle the impact of reoffending on society as a whole. The core member of this group is the MoJ, but it also includes health, education—which is so important—the DWP, the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and, of course, the Home Office. By working together we can reduce reoffending. Nobody would suggest that it is easy, but I believe that with a cross-government approach we will be able to do it.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, in both Houses and with Governments of both parties, I have consistently made the point that it is wrong for the state to opt out of crime and punishment. I believe that now even more strongly. Will my noble friend the Minister and her colleagues at least consider this alternative? None of us would advocate a private police force and I do not believe that any of us should advocate or support a private probation service or private prisons. That has been my consistent view throughout. I urge my noble friend to say that this matter will at least be reconsidered.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank my noble friend Lord Cormack for his comments. He will be unsurprised to learn that I disagree with him. I do not see this as an opting-out of crime and punishment. Certainly, people in the private, third and voluntary sectors have lots of experience in this area. It is important for us to use that and work with them. However, at this moment we are looking at the responses to the consultation that closed on 21 September. We will look closely at what people have said and the way that this should be planned going forward. We will bring further plans to Parliament before the end of the year.

Honda in Swindon

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 19th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, the best way to encourage sales is to make sure that the cars represent value for money. One of the most difficult challenges in the electrification of cars is the battery, as I am sure all noble Lords know. That is why the Government committed £246 million to the Faraday battery challenge. This will make sure that the UK is at the forefront of developing and designing the batteries that we need for these cars. Eventually, the price of the car will come down as the batteries become more effective and their range improves. They will, therefore, become much more attractive to consumers as the cost per car falls.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, the Secretary of State has repeatedly and bravely made it plain that for this country to leave the European Union without a deal would be a disaster. Would my noble friend thank the Secretary of State for his steadfastness in proclaiming this and suggest that he has a quiet talk with those members of our party who support the ERG and whose wish is to crash out without a deal?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank my noble friend for his comments. Nearly all noble Lords will agree that no deal would not be a good outcome for the automotive sector or the economy as a whole. The Government are working extremely hard to get a deal. In the meantime, we are doing what any responsible Government would do and putting in place the necessary legislation for no-deal exit.

Sexual Offences Legislation

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Cormack

Monday 28th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, the dead cannot answer. There is still a question mark that has not been removed from the reputation of the great George Bell. Should it not be the absolute rule, and should not the Government give this immediate attention, that for any dead person accused there should be no publication of their name until there is really substantial evidence of guilt?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I refer my noble friend to my answer to a previous question. Following the events of recent years, there has been a substantial and significant change to the College of Policing guidance. This now covers deceased persons too, and is published on the Authorised Professional Practice website, available for all practitioners to see. The previous Home Secretary asked the HMICFRS to do a short and targeted review of this issue in particular, to make sure that the release of people’s names prior to charge is done in only the right circumstances.

Inquiries Act 2005: Child Sexual Abuse

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Cormack

Thursday 22nd November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I do not think there is a Member of your Lordships’ House who would disagree with that. It is fair to say that the IICSA inquiry under way at the moment has set up the Truth Project, under which it has so far been possible for 1,500 victims and sufferers to come forward to give their accounts of what has happened to them, and we expect that many more will join them.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

What is paramount, surely, is that justice should be honoured in all cases. Although I accept what my noble friend said about not interfering in inquiries already established, what is really behind the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, is the real concern throughout the country, and particularly in this House, about reputations that have been trashed without adequate evidence. I put it to my noble friend that it is therefore incumbent on the Government to have a separate inquiry into how those who have been accused of historical abuse and are now dead can have their reputations defended.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, we have discussed this topic many times over recent months, and I entirely understand where my noble friend is coming from. Of course, we recognise and have every sympathy in circumstances where people have been unable to clear their name, but at the moment, there are no grounds to justify a further review.

Ivory Bill

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Cormack

Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 24th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, these amendments seek to widen the scope of the Clause 2 exemptions, which provide for:

“Pre-1918 items of outstanding artistic … cultural or historical value”,


and which are rare and important examples of their type. Their effect would be to increase—in some cases quite significantly, as noted by my noble friend Lord Hague—the number of items that would meet the criteria to be exempted under this category. This exemption is just one of a package of five carefully balanced and deliberately limited exemptions. This package was developed following extensive consultation with stakeholders and represents what we believe is a proportionate and reasonable approach, while retaining the integrity of the Bill’s critical purpose. The exemption in Clause 2 recognises that there is a strata of items, made of or containing ivory, which are traded for their artistic, cultural or historical value rather than their ivory content. This exemption is specifically intended to be narrow and applicable only to rare and important items of their type.

Amendment 3, tabled by my noble friend Lord De Mauley, would change the backstop date of this exemption from 1918 to 1947. That would significantly increase the number of items which fell under the exemption. I recognise my noble friend’s concerns that ivory items from the Art Deco period would not be included in the exemption. However, I emphasise that the intention of the Bill is to ban dealing in ivory with narrow exemptions. In the case of any ban, there will always be items that fall outside any exemptions. We believe, as I am sure many other noble Lords do, that the 1918 backstop date is reasonable and proportionate.

However, as per the exemption set out in Clause 9, acquisitions by qualifying museums will not be affected by the ban—this was noted by my noble friend Lord Carrington and mentioned in her speech by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell. Significant items from the Art Deco and Art Nouveau periods may be sold to accredited museums, where they may be enjoyed by the public and preserved for the nation. I reiterate: the Bill has no impact on any individual’s right to personally own, bequeath, gift or inherit these items.

Amendments 4, 5 and 6 would alter the definition of items in this exemption by removing “outstanding” or “outstandingly high”, and replacing “important” with “significant”. The effect of these amendments would be similar to others, by significantly increasing the number of items which fall into this category. In setting the criteria for this exemption—my noble friend Lord Carrington raised this—we will draw on existing criteria used to assess pre-eminence and national importance, such as the Waverley criteria and the export licensing regime for cultural objects. We will of course consult and work alongside expert institutions, museums and other key stakeholders to establish regulations setting out the detailed criteria for this exemption.

We are clear that items must be valued for their artistry, historical or cultural value, not their ivory content. As my noble friend Lord Gardiner and my right honourable friend the Secretary of State have said on a number of occasions, the Government intend to reduce the desirability of ivory items domestically and internationally. But nothing in the Bill will prevent anyone continuing to appreciate, enjoy or admire the artistry or craftsmanship of any ivory item that they own, have collected, have been given or have inherited.

My noble friends Lord De Mauley and Lady Neville-Rolfe talked about the inevitable loss of items. Why will these items be lost? The items might be artistic— perhaps an Art Deco sculpture. Why would they be destroyed? They might be theatre tokens, as in the case mentioned by my noble friend Lord Cormack. These items are interesting and elements of our social history; you would not destroy them.

[Lord Cormack]

They are also personal property, legally and properly acquired by people who felt that they would at some stage be able to sell them if they needed to. This is an invasion of private ownership and the principle of being able to dispose of what you legitimately acquired and own.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I think that we have been through that particular hoop a number of times. Indeed, this Bill complies with the European Convention on Human Rights. It is a proportionate response to an issue of global concern.

These objects will not be destroyed. Perhaps even if individuals no longer want them, they could do what I do and give them away or use Freecycle for items with little sale value. I find items on Freecycle last for about a day. There are many options available to individuals who want to pass on their items containing ivory.

With that explanation, I hope that my noble friend feels able to withdraw his amendment.

Ivory Bill

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Cormack

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 12th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I had not intended to take part in this brief debate. I do not support the amendments, which will not cause any great surprise. Not for the first time, I am rather provoked by the noble Baroness who has just spoken.

I do not believe that this Bill is the result of great care and massive consultation. This is hogwash, if one looks at the number of responses—and I will read these into the record yet again. First, the paper which went out did not state information for and against a total ban on ivory. That could have helped those who were genuinely concerned to come to an informed conclusion. Of the responses, 39,485—almost 40,000—were identical emails from members of the Stop Ivory campaign. Another 66,472—52%—responded to a 38 Degrees campaign. They would only have signed if they supported a total ban.

I come back to the point that those of us who believe that this is an example of gesture politics have made time and again. No single living elephant—all of which any sane, sensible person would wish to preserve—is going to be helped by this stringent, draconian ban on the sale of antique ivory. We are creating a massive and unnecessary bureaucracy which would merely be compounded by the passage of any of the three amendments that have been spoken to. I put this on record, though it will come as no surprise to any Member of your Lordships’ House to know that I feel very strongly on this issue. This legislation is entirely well motivated but ill conceived.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, this group of amendments relates to reporting on enforcement resources and the impact of the UK ivory ban on international ivory markets.

Before I turn to the amendments, I should like to reassure the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, that my noble friend Lord Gardiner will respond to the points he raised about the operation and funding of the enforcement system in a group that noble Lords will come to later this afternoon. I will focus my remarks specifically on the reporting element of the amendments.

Amendment 38 raises the critical issue of ensuring effective enforcement of the ban. I assure your Lordships that this issue is of foremost concern to the Government, and I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, that it will not be neglected.

Marine Special Protection Areas

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Cormack

Monday 21st May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I agree with the noble Lord. We are not aware of any major impact on plans or projects from the regulations currently in place.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I remind my noble friend that there is a Bill before your Lordships’ House dealing with the appalling damage caused to our parish churches by bats. Will she look very sympathetically on those provisions, because our parish churches are as important to tourism as are the Isles of Scilly?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, it was my great pleasure to be the Whip on the Front Bench for that Bill on that Friday. I listened to the arguments. It could not have escaped anyone’s attention that the Bill did not receive support from any of the Front Benches.