Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 3) Regulations 2020

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Thursday 3rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

I agree with everything that the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, has just said. We shall get to that point by the end of this month. I congratulate the Minister on the marathon session that he has done today. I have just agreed to almost three days this month of statutory instrument conversations like the ones that we are going to have today about things that have already been enacted. They all have to be done by 25 September, so for two Fridays and a Thursday the Minister and I and many noble Lords here will be in the Chamber having similar conversations. The time has come when we actually need to review the whole process. I say that for a number of reasons.

The Minister has said a few things today that I completely agree with; for example, he says that the population are getting a bit exhausted, that we definitely have a second wave coming and that there are things that we therefore need to think seriously about. The Minister has also said that we now know a great deal more about Covid, what happens and how to deal with outbreaks than we did at the beginning of March. When you put all those things together, it should say to us that we do not need the urgent legislation on the statute book that we agreed back in March. It needs to be reviewed. There is now time to plan for the next wave if it is going to happen. There is time to have discussions in Parliament about what needs to be done, what local authorities should be doing, what resources are needed, how the NHS can function and continue cancer and other treatments at the same time as manage a Covid outbreak. We have time to do that. It is about time to ask the Minister to say to the Government that we need to end the emergency legislation. We need to review it and we need to stop it. We now need proper scrutiny of the regulations that we are discussing today.

These regulations should have been debated two months ago. I put on the record again that this process needs to be reviewed as a matter of urgency. If we are to believe the Minister and his colleagues about testing and tracing, the readiness of the NHS, the scientific basis for local lockdowns, the strengthening of local public health efforts, and the greater understanding of the virus, we do not need emergency legislation to facilitate and to avoid a national lockdown. The question that the Minister needs to answer is: when will we see a proper review and revoking of these powers instead of just rolling forward, with Parliament unable to play its part in the legitimate scrutiny of this legislation?

Another legitimate concern which the Minister has heard from several parts of the House is that this piece of legislation can be used to stop legitimate political activity. Can the Minister say whether the legislation has indeed been used to stop legitimate political protest, which this country prides itself on allowing to happen, even in its most bonkers forms?

The noble Baroness, Lady Bull, and others raised important questions about the equality issues raised by this legislation. I would like the Minister to address those questions.

Can the Minister expand on the criteria for serious and imminent threats to public health and the necessary precautions? According to the Local Government Association, local authorities are unsure of the circumstances in which they can use these powers and the threshold for meeting these two tests. For example, many councils have been grappling with the lack of social distancing in venues, including licensed premises, such as pubs, but found that a small minority ignored the requirements to ensure social distancing altogether.

Where areas are on the Government’s watchlist, and there is a clear imminent public health ground to take action, councils feel confident in taking enforcement action under the regulations. However, where there is not a known spike of Covid cases locally, councils have advised that they are less certain about whether they can take enforcement action under the regulations to prevent a local outbreak. Does the Minister believe that a lack of social distancing in itself constitutes a serious and imminent threat to public health?

Hesitancy is not helpful in the fight against Covid-19. The clarity for which we have been calling for months remains a priority. I think that these regulations give a Secretary of State the power to require a local authority to make or revoke a direction after consulting with the CMO or deputy CMO. Can the Minister advise whether the Secretary of State has given any such directions and, if so, where has he done that? Can he confirm whether the CMO or deputy CMO were consulted and whether their responses were shared with the appropriate authority?

I would be grateful if the Minister could explain how this particular set of regulations interacts with the Government’s guidance on other legislative regimes. However, basically, the Government need to take a thorough look at the appropriateness of these regulations and the way in which they are carried out.