Implications of Devolution for England

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Richard

Tuesday 16th December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The noble Countess is absolutely right. I was not trying to suggest that there are no such Peers here in this House. The point I was making was that Peers do not represent a particular part of the country. We are all Peers representing the public and the national interest at large.

[Lord Richard]

My Lords, with great respect to the noble Baroness the Leader of the House, what she is saying is that English laws should be made by English votes only in the House of Commons, and that once they come up to this House, which is also a legislative Chamber, anybody—whether they are Scots, Welsh, English or Northern Irish—is entitled to express a view and vote on issues that may not affect them. What is the logic in that?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My Lords, we in this House are contributing to legislation now on an equal footing regardless of where we are from. We do not represent a particular part of the country. I come from Beeston and am very proud of that, but I do not represent Beeston. I am here as a United Kingdom Peer, as is the case for all of us.

Leader of the House of Lords

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Richard

Monday 28th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Stowell of Beeston) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd, for providing the opportunity for us to have this debate this evening. She is, it goes without saying, a distinguished Member of this House, and I have listened carefully to her and, indeed, to all noble Lords who have spoken tonight. I am very grateful to all noble Lords for the supportive comments that have been made about me personally. I am also grateful to the Constitution Committee under the chairmanship of my noble friend Lord Lang of Monkton which, contrary to how some of us have sought to portray it, has set out, in my view, a helpful and factual report that has been constructive in explaining how the relevant legislation has come into play on this occasion. The legislation that we are talking about is, of course, the Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975.

I am the Leader of this House. While noble Lords may be concerned about my ministerial rank, nothing changes that simple fact. Nothing has changed in practice about how I represent this House within government, and I will do the job of Leader in exactly the same way as all my predecessors. Even though nothing has changed in practice, the Prime Minister has made clear that he shares the House’s view, expressed passionately again tonight, that the Leader of the House of Lords should,

“as a general rule, always be a full member of the Cabinet”.

He has confirmed that he sees the current situation as a purely temporary one that he will want to rectify at the earliest opportunity, and that he will certainly do so immediately after the general election if he is returned as Prime Minister and no opportunity has arisen to do so before then. I note that the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, said that if the Opposition are elected, they too would change the situation at that time.

The principle at the heart of the Motion moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd, that this House should be properly represented within government at the highest level—that is to say, in Cabinet—is therefore not in dispute. We are all agreed on that point. The question we are debating tonight is how and when this temporary situation might be corrected and what problems, if any, this temporary situation creates.

A significant problem that the noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd, and some others have identified is a risk, which was also identified by the Constitution Committee, that my status might detract from my authority in an intangible way and affect my ability to represent this House in the Cabinet. I will respond to that point as directly as I can. As I said during our short debate soon after my appointment, judge me on what I do and how I do it. My effectiveness in the job will rest on the quality of my arguments and my ability to put forward my case. If my arguments are no good and I cannot present a good case, it will not matter whether I am a full member of the Cabinet.

Noble Lords already have evidence that I can deliver without status and regardless of rank. I led one of the most contentious pieces of legislation in this Parliament through your Lordships’ House when I was no more senior than any Whip. In so doing, I hope I demonstrated that successful negotiation with other Ministers and senior civil servants is not all about rank.

David Cameron is the second Prime Minister and the third party leader with whom I have worked closely. I have never in my professional career shied away from giving unpalatable advice or expressing an opinion that those on the receiving end did not want to hear. I will continue to do that where I believe it is necessary for me to do so. If noble Lords do not believe me, they may speak to any of my former male bosses. Some of them are also members of your Lordships’ House.

I am an independent woman and a single lady. Noble Lords might want to think of me as the Beyoncé of your Lordships’ House. I none the less recognise that this is ultimately not about me. I understand the serious concern expressed about diminishing the standing of this House of Parliament. This House has already shown that it need not be affected by this temporary situation. In the days after my appointment, this House debated the Bill of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, on assisted dying. The following day the Telegraph commented:

“Yesterday’s discussion in the House of Lords was an example of Parliament at its finest”.

The Times headlined a similar editorial with two words: “Model Parliament”. All that said, the situation is temporary and the PM is committed to rectifying it by May next year at the latest if he is re-elected. The noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd, talked, however, of the Prime Minister having careless disregard in the matter of my appointment. The noble Baroness, Lady Symons, also raised the constitutional concern.

It is important for me to remind noble Lords that it was the previous Government who removed the certainty of a full Cabinet member being in the House of Lords when they removed the Lord Chancellor from this House. The comparison by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, of this current, temporary situation to a permanent change is not one that I can accept. That change, the change of removing the Lord Chancellor from this House, has a profound impact. Indeed, the Constitution Committee’s report says:

“At the time of the 1975 Act it would have been assumed that at least the Lord Chancellor would always be a peer in the Cabinet”.

That change has had a profound impact on the membership of the Cabinet in terms of its representation from your Lordships’ House.

I turn now to some of the potential solutions that noble Lords have put forward tonight. I refer specifically to that which my noble friend Lord MacGregor made.

[Lord Richard (Lab)]

In terms of that, may I ask the noble Baroness a question? If she is in this strange sort of intermediate stage of not being a Cabinet Minister yet being in the Cabinet, if there is a collection of voices, does she have a vote?

Leasehold Reform (Amendment) Bill

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Richard

Friday 7th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Stowell of Beeston) (Con)]

My Lords, I share and echo the comments of noble Lords in congratulating my noble friend Lady Williams of Trafford on, and thanking her for, introducing this Bill. I hope that she will not mind me informing your Lordships that this is the first time that she has spoken in the Chamber, and I do not know how many other Members of your Lordships’ House have spoken for the first time in the Chamber while being responsible for a Private Member’s Bill. She gave her maiden speech in Grand Committee in the Moses Room, so this is an occasion all on its own, even though the Bill is important.

I, too, must declare my interest as an owner-occupier of a leasehold flat. Like other noble Lords have done, I should mention the good work of my honourable friends in the other place, David Nuttall and Philip Hollobone, in introducing and leading the Bill. I congratulate them on the progress it has made so far. I am pleased to say that the Government fully support the Bill as it stands. Some brief and well targeted amendments that were brought forward in the other place by the honourable friends I mentioned, jointly with my honourable friend the Housing Minister, have ensured that the Bill can effectively achieve its worthwhile aim.

Importantly, the Bill will, if it reaches the statute book, affect only the position in England, not in Wales—housing being a devolved matter. This is probably the right moment to respond to the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, about Wales. I urge Members of the Welsh Assembly to look at this legislation and consider it carefully. I do not believe that prior to the Bill coming forward—and, I hope, achieving Royal Assent—there is any discrepancy in terms of equality law, but clearly there will be a difference between the treatment of people in England and those in Wales who live in leasehold properties. I hope that the Assembly will look at what we are doing here and learn from it.

As my noble friend Lady Williams explained, the Bill aims, by amending Section 99(5)—

[Lord Richard (Lab)]

I do not quite follow the position regarding Wales, because it has been explained that Wales is deliberately excluded from the provisions of Bill. None the less, subsection (3) of Clause 2 states:

“The Act extends to England and Wales”.

Does it?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The Act that is in place, which this Bill is amending, extends to Wales, but because housing is a devolved matter, the way in which we are amending the Act is specific, in that the amendment applies only to England. One might describe it as a convoluted way of going about it, as is sometimes necessary when amending legislation. However, the effect will be that the Act that this Bill is amending remains as it is and applies to England and Wales, but the specific amendment to the Act via this Bill will apply only to England, because we cannot apply it to Wales. It is a devolved matter.

[Lord Richard]

The Bill states that the Act extends to England and Wales. Does it?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

Okay, I see where the noble Lord is coming from. The Act extends to England and Wales but we cannot amend it in respect of Wales. Wales has to amend it for itself because it is a devolved matter. I hope that that clarifies the situation for the noble Lord.

Crime: Violence Against Women and Girls

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Richard

Thursday 8th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I certainly agree with my noble friend that victims of violence extend to young girls in relationships, and that boys need to be educated. In fact, I will next week answer a Question about what is being done to help men who are inclined to this dreadful behaviour. It is worth making the point that one of the changes that this Government have made is to extend the definition of domestic violence to include violence against girls who are 16 and 17, and that is a welcome measure.

[Lord Richard]

Does the noble Baroness agree, as a matter of principle, that the lower the poll the weaker the mandate? In those circumstances, if the poll in these elections turns out to be derisorily low, how does she think that police commissioners will be able to combat violence against women or, indeed, any other form of criminal activity?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

Any mandate that the police and crime commissioners achieve will be stronger than the mandate that currently does not exist for the invisible police authorities.