Landmines and Cluster Munitions

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 3rd April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the situation in the Baltic states and Poland is rather different from that in the United Kingdom. We need to look at the decisions of those sovereign states that have opted to withdraw from the Ottawa treaty—and, in the case of Lithuania, from the Convention on Cluster Munitions—somewhat differently from any suggestion that the United Kingdom should withdraw from treaties or conventions. The perceived threats to the Baltic states and Poland are very real and, as sovereign states, they clearly have the right to make a decision. The noble Lord, Lord Godson, suggested that perhaps His Majesty’s Government had been critical of Lithuania. Clearly, it is not the role of His Majesty’s Government or the United Kingdom to criticise our NATO partners and allies.

At the same time, there is a very strong sense in which His Majesty’s Government and the United Kingdom need to uphold the treaty obligations to which we are signatories. The noble Lord, Lord Dubs, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, talked about mines still being in place long after wars in places they have visited. In the Falklands in 2017, 35 years after the war ended, there were beaches on which one could not walk because there were still landmines. It took until 2020 for that demining to end. In Ukraine, it is likely to take 10,000 deminers working all year, every year for 10 years to get rid of the landmines that are there already.

We need to stick with our commitments. We need to ensure that the United Kingdom does not breach the international rule of law and that, as far as possible, we stick with treaty obligations so that we do not further risk escalation globally.