Disclosure of State Pension Credit Information (Warm Home Discount) Regulations 2011

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Tuesday 12th July 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Whitty]

My Lords, I welcome this for the same reason as the noble Lord, Lord Teverson. This has been a long-running saga, but I hope that we will get the ability to match data in the nicest possible sense in order to ensure that the benefit goes to those for whom it is intended and to whom the provision of the warm homes discount applies.

My query arises from a wider concern about the Government’s strategy in relation to fuel poverty. There is no relationship between the warm homes discount and any improvement in the energy efficiency of the home itself. The Government have cut significantly the former direct payment through Warm Front and related schemes and are relying on a variation of the eco-mechanism to redirect money back into energy efficiency. This is distinct from the previous approach of a social tariff—which may have been flawed in many ways—in that there is no mechanism for ensuring that the bills next year, for those people who will benefit from the discount this year, will be any lower, because there has been no nudge in the direction of improving the energy efficiency of their homes.

However, the Minister encouraged me in his closing remarks when he referred to the possibility of using the data to identify those who may be targeted for advice on improving energy efficiency. As long as only a discount is provided, the problem of fuel poverty will continue, and the Government will have to continue to override the tariffs structure by providing discounts, rebates and special tariffs, with all the complexities and requirements to identify individuals that that implies. However, if the policy were linked to one of improving energy efficiency, perhaps through the same supply companies, that would be a more constructive way to go forward.

The question is: beyond the giving of advice, would it be possible to gear some of this discount—on the discretion of the recipient—to improvements through the Green Deal or other provisions fronted by the supply company, rather than providing a straight discount? If that is possible, could it be made apparent to the recipient that this is not just a cash saving this year, but a step towards reducing energy consumption and therefore towards reduced bills in future years? That would be a more coherent approach and would not require any greater disclosure of data or data matching than these regulations require.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My Lords, we have previously discussed the Warm Home Discount Regulations in Committee at some length and the regulations before us follow from that. When we discussed them before, the Minister was generous enough to acknowledge that the Labour Government were very clear when they brought in the voluntary arrangements that should they be successful, they would bring in legislation for compulsory support. Today’s regulations add to that compulsory support. What we did not envisage was that this would happen against the backdrop alluded to by my noble friend Lord Whitty: a drastic two-thirds cut in warm front grants. The Minister is very aware of our concerns and our opposition to those cuts. As welcome as these discounts are, my fear is that with the very substantial increases in bills for next year that have been announced, next winter’s bills will be so much larger that the impact of the discount, which will be extremely welcome to those who receive it, will be less than envisaged when the level was first set.

I have two questions for the Minister, and I have given him notice of them. One is to seek confirmation on a point which my noble friend Lord Whitty also made. It is about the use for which companies can contact recipients of grants. I want to be assured that when the Secretary of State discloses information to an electricity supplier it can not be used for the purposes of sale or promotion by that company. Sub-paragraphs (b) and (c) of Regulation 5(1) state that the reasons for giving the information are,

“enabling the supplier to so provide that rebate”,

which is entirely reasonable and welcome, and

“enabling the supplier to offer relevant assistance to that customer”,

which is also entirely reasonable and welcome. However, in Regulation 5(3), there is a very broad definition of relevant assistance including:

“energy efficiency measures, thermal efficiency measures and advice and assistance relating to energy and thermal efficiency … advice and assistance relating to the generation of electricity or heat produced by microgeneration or the production of heat produced by any plant which relies wholly or mainly on wood as a fuel”,

and the list continues. Energy companies can contact the recipient on such a broad base, and they may use that to try to promote sales growth. I am not sure that that is what is intended, so if the Minister could be clear that the broad definition is not a sales pitch for energy companies, it would be helpful.

On the previous regulations, we discussed the reconciliation mechanism that will be in place to make sure that the information shared is accurate. I am not clear whether there will be further regulations on that. I understood that second and third statutory instruments will be coming through. If they will not, will the Minister tell us how that will be funded? When we discussed this before, I think there was an issue about who would be responsible for funding the reconciliation mechanism. If he can give us an answer on that today, it will be very helpful. However, we broadly support the regulations with those two caveats on which we would like answers.

[Lord Marland]

I thank noble Lords, as always. The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, was first in to bat. Funnily enough, Teverson is not a natural terrorist name, I feel. You do not think that with that name—a Cornish name, no doubt—he is going to be immediately arrested at the airport for some data matching. The data-matching issue is very important. There is no great science. Indeed, we have trialled it. We have trialled 340,000 people on the pension credit and, luckily, we hit the jackpot with about 205,000. There is a gap, and it is very important that we follow up the people who we could not access through the matching, but we have made substantial inroads into the number.

The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, has great expertise in this area, particularly on the subject of fuel poverty. We all know that both Governments, particularly our Government, are determined to attack this dreadful feature of our society which is exponentially going off the dial in terms of numbers, despite the best intentions of the previous Government and, indeed, the much better intentions of this Government to try and sort it out. In truth, the House is unified in dealing with this dreadful problem. It is fundamental that we get to grips with it and I know that we will carry it out. As your Lordships will know, we have instructed Professor Hills to carry out a fuel poverty review. It is an independent review and we are looking forward to seeing what suggestions he comes up with.

The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, asked how we can connect this to energy efficiency measures in some form. Indeed, that joined-up thinking is no doubt the secret of his success. There is an element of joined-up thinking because we can use this data for targeting CERT, which is a temporary measure. It then may become a mechanism which we can make work with the Green Deal, as he rightly says. We have to recognise that the Green Deal is a big picture deal. We are trying to get into millions and millions of homes, not just those in this core group that we are representing, so as the Green Deal evolves we will doubtless be able to work in some joined-up thinking in that regard. However, there is indeed a gap until the Green Deal takes off, once the legislation passes through. Unfortunately, because there have been endless debates on alternative voting and reform of the House of Lords, we have not been able to get the legislation through which we perhaps required.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My understanding is that the Energy Bill, which has completed its stages in this House, is being delayed in the other place, which has not been having debates on the alternative vote or the House of Lords. In fact, if he is able to enlighten us on why there is no date set for the final stages of the Energy Bill in the other place, that would be gratefully received because many of us in this House, who fully supported so much of that Bill, are very disappointed that it does not seem to be going any further.

[Lord Marland]

Indeed, no more disappointed than I am. Of course, one has to take into consideration all the legislation going into the other House. We genuinely tried to persuade the other place to allow it to come in, but it is so log-jammed with legislation. I am not sure whether it is entirely true that the other place has not debated Lords reform, or indeed alternative voting. However, I take the noble Baroness’s point and no one is more disappointed than our department in not being able to get the Bill through.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, made a very good point, as always, about the parameters. Broadly speaking, this is not to be used as a method of mis-selling.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

Nor of any sales promotion.

[Lord Marland]

Yes, nor of any sales promotion, let alone mis-selling—a subject that we debated extensively on the Green Deal. We must be vigilant that that does not happen. Let me state this absolutely categorically; indeed, I will go through the notes because I do not want to have any doubt. This instrument sets very tight parameters around the use of information, limiting it to requiring electricity suppliers to give their customers an automatic rebate on their electricity bills—it is limited to that—and to being able to offer their customers advice and assistance in specified areas on energy and thermal efficiency. Any other reason, such as sales promotion, is not permitted and would be unlawful. I hope that that clarifies that issue in words of one syllable.

There is not going to be a further order on the subject of reconciliation. We accept that pensioners who will benefit may not be evenly distributed between the energy supply companies. As a result, we have put in place a reconciliation mechanism to allow the costs of the scheme to be distributed fairly between energy suppliers, based on their market share. Regulations to allow for this came into force on 1 July 2011. I hope, with that, I can commend these regulations to the Committee.