Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Baroness Scott of Needham Market Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 7th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Needham Market (LD)]

My Lords, it is a real pleasure and a privilege to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, as she has made what I think all would agree was an exemplary maiden speech. It was concise, knowledgeable and full of interesting insights, and brought with it a passion about passengers from her experience in London—Londoners—and passengers wherever they happen to live in our country. As we heard, she served as a member of the London Assembly for 16 years, as chair or deputy chair of the transport committee. During that time, she achieved the respect and admiration of people not just in our party or the assembly but across London and in the industry. I know that her wealth of knowledge and experience will be a great asset to the work of this House. We extend our warmest wishes to her and look forward to her future contributions in this debate, on transport generally and on regional government, and, above all, still as a champion for London.

It reminded me that I made my maiden speech during the passage of the Transport Act 2000. As I look around, I see a handful of gnarled veterans of that debate—and I include myself in that. Starting off with all the nervousness that you have when you make a maiden speech, I was not helped by the Minister saying, “My Lords, we have five former Secretaries of State speaking in today’s debate”. Lord Rodgers of Quarry Bank, who was one of them, leaned over to me and said, “Well, just look at what a mess we all made of it”. He knew how to put me at my ease.

Like the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, I have absolutely no ideological aversion to private sector involvement in public services. There are instances where it can work very well, but the problem with rail, as we have seen with other services such as water, is that we end up creating a pretend market, a sort of proxy for something that does not exist, which leads to incentives for behaviours that often do no serve the public well, as either taxpayers or passengers. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, had it when he described it as “gaming the regulator”. A lot of that goes on—and the fact that four services out of 14 are now run by the Government as the operator of last resort is a testament to that.

As far back as 2018, as we have heard, many in the industry were calling for a total rethink of the franchising model that had been established in 1993, and that included the operators themselves. I think that there is widespread agreement that change is needed but, unfortunately, what we do not seem to hear, other than in today’s Bill, is a vision for what that change might look like. There is an opportunity here to explore, as we go into Committee, what other options might look like.

We have created a tangled web of different players with planning, delivery and oversight powers in the railway, which has led to a system that in some cases has given passengers a woeful experience. The interfaces between all those different organisations have caused expensive inefficiencies and a real lack of transparency, as we heard from my noble friend Lord Bradshaw. However, there are good operators. I am fortunate enough to live in an area served by Greater Anglia, which is one of the very best in the country. Ironically, it is one of the first that will go under the terms of the Bill.

I think that we all agree that there should be a clear and coherent plan for the railway in which it can operate effectively as a mode of transport but also deliver wider objectives such as economic development and net zero. The “guiding hand” principle underpinning Great British Railways is the right idea and commands widespread support.

But surely it would have made sense to have established that first, then allow the experts within it to determine the best way of delivering its objectives. For example, they could recommend other models of private sector involvement such as the concession model, which, as we heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, has worked very successfully in London on the overground and the Elizabeth line. Putting this Bill first has closed off all those options.

It is quite hard to judge the four clauses in the Bill, because it is the framework within which it sits that will determine the extent to which it is successful, and we will not know that until we get the big Bill at some point next year. I have a lot of questions for the Minister. I understand that they will probably not receive a reply this evening, but other noble Lords have touched on the same subjects. First, I am not clear still about how the guiding hand is going to work at the same time as the day-to-day operations being run by government. Clearly, we want to be able to make sure that they are coherent and work together, but we cannot have day-to-day management sitting with exactly the same people who are making the strategic decisions; it will simply not work.

Will there still be a role for the Rail Safety and Standards Board, and how will its independence be maintained? It is interesting that in all the discussions we have had so far, nobody has mentioned safety. It is worth reflecting on how safe our railway is and what it takes to keep it so; that is something we really need to take good account of. I would also like some thoughts about the Office of Rail and Road, to which other Members have referred.

It is still not clear to me who is going to ensure fair access for freight, and devolved and open access services. I think people welcome the Minister’s commitment to keeping them, but we need to be sure that they are going to be able to operate effectively, particularly with the capacity constraints that the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin, and others have referred to. I would also appreciate some clarity about the relationship with local government as planning and transport authorities. As the Government’s thinking on regional governance is evolving, would it not make sense, as many noble Lords have said, to think about some of them running local rail services, in the way that happens in London and with Merseyrail?

I have a few more questions. What assessment is being made of the staffing requirement for taking these franchises in house, ensuring the right mix and level of skills, from the operational to the strategic?

Currently, mainline stations are operated by Network Rail and the rest are run by the operators. How can we be sure that the essential improvements that are needed for smaller stations currently run by operators do not end up at the back of the queue? Indeed, if the noble Lord, Lord Young, is correct and the investment dries up, there might be a problem of any improvements.

While I welcome the establishment of the passenger standards authority, it will not be in place until the major railways Bill has passed. The process of renationalising passenger services will have started well before then, so how can we be sure that the voice of passengers will be heard right from the outset?

Finally, clarity about the timetable for this is essential. I understand the noble Baroness’s point about contractual obligations and having to take them in the order in which they fall, but is she absolutely sure? Public confidence in this process will be severely dented if a good operator, such as Greater Anglia, faces the axe before a terrible one, such as Avanti. I just ask her to think about that.

With a flight of fancy, 27 September next year will be the 200th anniversary of the opening of the Stockton to Darlington railway. Would it not be great to see a proper renaissance of our railways?