Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Baroness Primarolo Excerpts

Monday 18th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Harper]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend: I had indeed omitted to talk about his amendment 61, about overseas voters. He will know that at the moment there is a 15-year time limit, to which he drew attention, for British citizens who live overseas. The Government are considering whether to bring proposals before the House in due course. Again, however, I would say to him that this Bill, on the referendum, is not the place to explore that issue. However, he is an eternal optimist, and he might not have to wait eternally before he can debate the matter in the House—perhaps in the near future. I hope that that will satisfy him and enable him, in all good conscience, not to press his amendments to a vote.

[The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dawn Primarolo)]

Natascha Engel, do you wish to respond to the debate?

[Natascha Engel]

I will be seeking your permission to press my amendment 332 to a vote when the time comes, Ms Primarolo. It is a shame that the Minister has focused on a technicality, rather than looking at the important point behind the principle of extending the franchise to 16-year-olds. That is a shame; therefore, I shall seek to divide the Committee on my amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Harper]

On a point of order, Ms Primarolo. I gave a commitment on Second Reading that I and other Front Benchers would do what we could to ensure that the Committee had an opportunity either to debate or to vote on the significant issues that arose. Given the time, the Committee will wish to know that in the event of our not reaching clause 6 in today’s debate, I intend to allow it to vote, even if that is, sadly, without debate, on the lead amendment in the group selected for debate in relation to that clause, which proposes turnout thresholds for the referendum to be valid. With the permission of the Members concerned, a member of the Government will therefore move amendment 3 so that it can be put to the vote, thereby fulfilling the commitment that I made on Second Reading.

[The Second Deputy Chairman]

I am sure that the Minister knows that, strictly speaking, that is not a point of order. He has given a point of information to the Committee on how he intends to conduct the business this evening, and I am sure that all Members have taken note of it. I do not wish to have a debate on how the Government might handle this, and I should like to return to the debate because there is still a great deal to cover.

Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 2

Rules for conduct of the referendum

[Mr Harper]

I beg to move amendment 267, page 26, line 5, leave out ‘16th’ and insert ‘15th’.

[The Second Deputy Chairman]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 170, 269, 271 to 273, 171 to 173, 177 to 181, 306 and 161.

[Mr Harper]

The amendments make minor and technical drafting changes to the Bill. Amendments 267 and 269 change the deadline for issuing the notice of poll in the rules for the conduct of the referendum from 16 to 15 days before the poll. The change is necessary to ensure that the combination provisions, which we tabled earlier today, work in the right way.

The rest of the amendments contain a series of miscellaneous minor technical amendments and corrections. I am happy to discuss them further if Members are interested in the detail. I commend them to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Bryant]

I beg to move amendment 354, page 27, line 37, at end insert—

‘(iii) a school which enjoys charitable status.’.

[The Second Deputy Chairman]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 355, page 27, line 38, leave out from ‘Scotland’ to end of line 39 and insert

‘any school other than those which are run as profit-making enterprises’.

Amendment 356, page 27, line 41, after ‘Assembly’, insert

‘or a school which enjoys charitable status’.

[Chris Bryant]

The amendments are in my name and that of my right hon. Friend the Leader of Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition. Historically, legislation has always provided that the returning officer is able to use polling stations in state-provided schools. For many people up and down the land, when they go to vote, they expect to turn up to a school. Normally it is their local primary school, but provision may be made in their local secondary school. Sometimes, where schools have disappeared, there is a problem with the local returning officer finding a suitable venue. Of course, there is an impact on local state schools: sometimes they have to be closed because there is no other means of providing that the returning officer can use the entrance and make sure that there is security for the children in the school.

These are three simple amendments, the first of which—amendment 354—would insert in schedule 2, page 27, line 37, the words

“a school which enjoys charitable status”,

so that the provisions applied not just to schools provided by the state. We have used that term in relation to the law in England and Wales, because in those areas, independent schools with good facilities that might be made available could be so termed. To provide a similar provision for Scotland, we have tabled amendment 355, which would insert, in schedule 2, page 27, line 38, the phrase

“any school other than those which are run as profit-making enterprises”,

because the independent sector in Scotland works slightly differently.

I see that none of our Northern Irish colleagues is with us, but amendment 356 relates to Northern Ireland. We would not want to conflict with the provisions relating to Roman Catholic schools run by nunneries and convents, so we have not provided the exact same measure as for England and Wales, where “charitable status” covers the situation. We therefore suggest in the amendment that in schedule 2, page 27, line 41, after “Assembly”, we should insert

“or a school which enjoys charitable status”.

I recognise that there are those who would say, “Why on earth should independent sector schools be forced to act as polling stations?” I suspect that more independent schools are likely to say that they would quite like the income that might accrue. More importantly, I do not see why state-provided schools should be regularly used and should therefore undergo the upheaval that polling stations cause, but the independent sector which, in the main, enjoys charitable status and is therefore able to have tax benefits, should not be required to provide the same facilities.

The Minister may say, “We think this is an unnecessary measure.” Our point is that it should be a matter of fairness. The provision should apply across the board. It should not be state schools alone that are inconvenienced. The inconvenience should be shared by all. In addition, some preparatory schools or public schools would be able to provide the necessary facilities relatively easily, without any major inconvenience to them.

In recent years we have seen a considerable attempt by schools in the independent sector to open their doors so that they are far more engaged in the local community. This is an opportunity for them to be engaged in the political process. I hope the amendments will be acceptable to the Government. I am sure they would not want to defend the present injustice.