Employment Rights Bill

Baroness O'Grady of Upper Holloway Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 14th July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak to all three amendments in this group, the second two of which are in my name.

I begin by thanking the Government for listening to and acting on the concerns of victims of harassment and discrimination, who have risked so much by speaking out for justice despite being bound by non-disclosure agreements. The Government’s Amendment 46 brings in radical change, as the Minister has described. I join the Minister in particularly mentioning Zelda Perkins of Can’t Buy My Silence; behind her have been other civic society groups, which have been unfailing and determined, and have refused to be discouraged.

I congratulate MPs who spoke out in the Commons. In this House, I was very glad that the Minister mentioned the names of the many noble Baronesses across the Benches who have been involved. I know that the noble Baronesses, Lady Kennedy, Lady Morrissey and Lady Chakrabarti cannot be here today. We had all expected the amendments to come up on Wednesday, so with this sudden change of plan, they are here in spirit and will continue to watch over this legislation.

I also think she was right to take note of the engagement by the noble Baroness, Lady O’Grady, because her years leading the trade union movement gave the Government the confidence they needed to take action. For that, we always remain respectful and grateful.

The Government will face a complex task in fashioning the regulations which must underpin this clause. Some NDAs, for example, are designed to protect children who are third parties in an event from disclosure of very personal details. This is complex and not easy issue. Those of us on these Benches will be watching very closely as the regulations are developed.

However, there is a key weakness in the proposed clause, which I am aware the Government cannot tackle in this Bill because of its scope. The clause and its protections apply only to workers and, indeed, to a narrow definition of workers which sits within the pre-existing legislation on disclosure. So, for example, a would-be actress interviewed by Harvey Weinstein would not be covered because she is not within the definition of worker. Now, an employee of Weinstein’s company could safely speak out on her behalf with this new legislation—that is the Zelda Perkins example—if they had witnessed harassment, so it is a real improvement.

However, the clause does not protect a job applicant, a company director, a self-employed contractor or a supplier—although I know the Government are looking at this issue—even though all of these people could lose their careers or sometimes their businesses by speaking out. We on these Benches will not stop this particular weakness preventing us supporting this amendment. We thoroughly do. However, it illustrates just how much more reform is needed to have a fully workable and effective framework for all people to speak out—and that leads me to the two other amendments in this group.

Amendment 95, in my name, would set up an office of the whistleblower to protect whistleblowers, oversee whistleblowing processes and enforce compliance with standards. It would bring redress against detriment, it would cover everyone—worker or not, public or private sector—and deal completely with the weaknesses in the NDA clause. I thank WhistleblowersUK and the numerous KCs who helped draft it. It really has had the work of some of our leading lawyers.

The office would act on a hub-and-spoke basis with existing regulators and investigators, almost all of whom are keen to see it in place because it delivers them the whistleblowing they need to be effective and to make the best use of their limited resources. Whistleblowers tell you where in the haystack to look and provide information from the inside that enables regulators, investigators and enforcement agencies to take action.

The Government are also committed to a duty of candour. I know there has been a bit of a hiccup this week, but the Hillsborough Law Now action group, which works so hard on duty of candour, will also tell them that the duty works much better if it is complemented by an office of the whistleblower, which then gives protection against detriment to those who do speak out as they should. The office is also not an expansion of regulation; Ministers have said it is, but it is not. It streamlines existing processes and provides mechanisms to enforce existing regulations, laws and sanctions. Experience in the US demonstrates that an office of the whistleblower becomes a major deterrent to bad actors. We would all want that. The US experience also suggests that the office would pay for itself within two years from recouped moneys and prosecutions, and then contribute substantial funds to the Treasury.

I recognise this is not the perfect Bill in which to place this reform, so I am looking to the Government to reassure me that they are seizing the issue. I hope that we are going to hear from the Minister in closing that the Grant Thornton review of the whistleblowing framework will be made public shortly. However, given that the terms of reference for that report were so narrow, I am also looking for a commitment to seriously —and in a timely way—progress to proper whistleblowing protection.

The third amendment in this group is Amendment 96 and was drafted by the noble Lord, Lord Willis, together with the civic society group Protect, and signed by him, me and the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan of Cotes. Neither the noble Lord nor the noble Baroness can be here today, so in a sense I am voicing for them. This amendment is an interim attempt to patch up some of the worst gaps in the present legislation we have on disclosure and whistleblowing until we get broader reform. It gives the Secretary of State powers to expand the range of unfair dismissal. Often, someone is a recognised whistleblower but the employer says, “No, we’re actually dismissing you because you’re not a good team player”, and it puts the whistleblower into an impossible position in the context of the employment tribunal, so that is exactly why this change is necessary.

It also requires employers to take reasonable steps to investigate disclosures. I know the noble Lord, Lord Willis, cannot conceive why the Government have not agreed to this amendment and it may be that he will be keen to test the opinion of the House if there is no significant reassurance that we can get some quick movement to try to deal with some of these most egregious circumstances. I have said that, if he cannot be present on Wednesday, when the issue would possibly come to a vote, I will act on his behalf.

Let me close by congratulating the Government. I hope that this strive forward on NDAs will make the Government eager to seize the whole whistleblowing agenda. The Government have already heard the acclamation, the congratulations and the real pleasure that the nettle has been grasped on an issue which is difficult and the Government have made a very significant change. However, surely we cannot allow a repeated flow of scandals, criminality and cover-up to both sully our country and cost so many so dear. I say to the Government, “Bravo for all you have done and, moving forward on the rest, please act—and act soon”.

[Baroness O'Grady of Upper Holloway (Lab)]

My Lords, it is real pleasure to follow my noble friend Lady Kramer and to add my strong support to my noble friend the Minister and the Government’s Amendment 46 on non-disclosure agreements. This will make the UK a world leader in legislation to end the silence around workplace harassment and discrimination.

Neary 10 years ago, the TUC conducted the biggest survey of its kind in Europe, which found that half of all women had experienced sexual harassment at work, and that figure rose to two-thirds of young women. Women on insecure contracts, including agency and zero-hours contracts, were the most vulnerable of all. Too often, women subjected to harassment felt they had no choice but to leave their jobs, risking their careers and livelihoods. Meanwhile, too often, the perpetrator remained in post, free to harass others.

I will always remember one young woman who quit her job after increasingly disturbing comments made by her boss. At her leaving party, he told her that his only regret was that he had not had the chance to get her in the store cupboard and rape her. This is why many of us believe so strongly that harassment is not a joke or a bit of banter, and is not to be trivialised. Whether it is racism, sexism or any other form of prejudice and discrimination, it is an abuse of power that has real-life consequences for those who suffer it. Settlement agreements with non-disclosure clauses compound the lack of power that many of those subjected to harassment feel.

This amendment is about protecting the free speech of victims and witnesses to harassment. This new right will not stop the use of settlement agreements, but it will stop them being used to gag victims. It puts the victims of and witnesses to abuse in the driving seat. They can decide whether they want to talk about the experience and who they want to talk to. That should give every perpetrator pause for thought.

As well as noble Lords on all sides who have supported this amendment—I see the noble Lord, Lord Cromwell, too—and our own Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, I also congratulate the Deputy Prime Minister, Angela Rayner, the Employment Minister, Justin Madders, and the brilliant Lou Haigh MP for championing this change.

Like others, my last word of praise goes to all those campaigners, and certainly not least to Zelda Perkins and the campaign Can’t Buy My Silence. Zelda broke her silence eight years ago, and ever since has spoken up fearlessly on behalf of victims and survivors. I am so very proud.

We will still be watching, but I am so very proud that this Labour Government have really listened.