Ozone-Depleting Substances and Fluorinated Greenhouse Gases (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Wednesday 27th February 2019 Grand Committee

I want to ask about a couple of things in the regulations. The noble Baroness kindly explained the UK quota system, which will be UK-wide, and the Environment Agency will negotiate that with the devolved Administrations. However, what happens in the event that the devolved Administrations disagree about how much quota they get? Does she foresee that that will be an issue? The noble Baroness also mentioned that EU-certified technicians will be able to continue to work in the UK, but will it work the other way round—will UK-certified technicians be able to work in the EU? I understand that access to the EU quotas will require an office being set up in the EU to negotiate them and administrate that process. It would be useful to know whether that exchange of technical personnel will be reciprocal, and to know about the quotas. However, other than that, I hope that by 2030, we will have achieved our targets and perhaps even done better than that and moved past them. It concerns me that, according to the University of Bristol study, other areas of the world continue to emit such vast amounts of something that is so damaging to the atmosphere.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I join the noble Baroness in congratulating Defra, both on this regulation and on the very clear Explanatory Memorandum. I know from the useful briefing Defra gave me last summer that it was getting ahead very well with the EU exit regulations, and it is good to see them coming through.

I also wanted to look backwards. In the early 1980s, I was a junior civil servant in what is now Defra, and responsible for research and development in a small way. I went to an interdepartmental meeting to discuss various proposed cuts, one of which was to the British Antarctic Survey. I remember arguing, contrary to my brief, that we should continue to support the survey because I believed in fundamental research and that sometimes you did not just do research near to the final product. Of course, later in my career, history showed that the survey was very important. That is a story I like to tell to youngsters in schools because it shows the importance of R&D.

I was pleased that the Minister described the work Defra had done to look at the impact on business of this regulation. I have just one point of clarification. She mentioned that 100 businesses were being regulated and then said that the estimate was that the cost—I think of the extra administrative system that we have had to bring in because of the transfer—would be £60,000 in aggregate for 50 to 60 companies. I could not understand the difference between the 100 companies that seemed to be affected by the proposal and the cost figure, which, if that is the only cost, seems modest for this important area.

[Lord Grantchester (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for her introduction to the order before the Committee and for undertaking prior discussions with her team. As she said, this order, while not specifically made to cover the scenario where the UK leaves the EU without a deal, nevertheless makes provision for a no-deal exit with the repatriation of authorising authorities and regulators. It also corrects a series of deficiencies in retained EU law on ozone-depleting substances under Part 2 and fluorinated greenhouse gases under Part 3. The order therefore maintains the 79% cut on a UK basis, as for example in F-gases between 2015 and 2030, as the Minister stated, by steadily reducing quotas for companies that operate in this field. The order maintains that it will continue.

Although many of the changes introduced through this order on the transfer of powers currently exercised in Europe to the UK are technical in nature, other minor noteworthy changes could be construed as shifts in policy. Labour certainly does not challenge the order and will approve it today.

Although the order was laid in December and subsequently relaid on 6 February following exchanges with the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, I understand that it is essentially the same document. The order has not been flagged by your Lordships’ Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, but it is worth recognising that progress has been made in several areas in which there have been concerns and to which the Minister drew attention. However, there are a few questions around these outcomes, which I will highlight for the Minister.

It is good to note that the UK Government and the devolved Administrations have agreed to the repatriation on the basis of a single UK-wide quota. This quota, following dialogue with the relevant companies on how much they place in the UK market, will be set at 12%, roughly aligned with the size of the UK’s population relative to the EU. That the UK’s usage aligns in this way is certainly interesting. Under paragraph 2.8 of the draft Explanatory Memorandum, it is agreed between the Government and the devolved Administrations that, should an Administration wish to diverge from the protocol in the future, they must consult the others before doing so. Have the Government consulted the Commission on whether the EU has also agreed to the 12% and on whether, should the UK in the future wish to diverge in any way from the process agreed in the 1987 Montreal Protocol, it will consult with the EU and others before undertaking any divergence?

Paragraph 6.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum states that the Environment Act 1995 will be amended to include a charging regime under the authority of the Environment Agency on a UK-wide basis. I certainly join others in saying that good progress is being made, with this having happened, but I note that these changes are on a cost recovery basis. Can the Minister confirm, because it was in some divergence to the £60,000 figure she gave in her introductory remarks, that the total amount costed in the other place was estimated at £500,000 per annum for the administrative costs? I understand that the Government have put this out to consultation regarding cost recovery, so I have a few questions for the Minister regarding the scope of that consultation.

Paragraph 6.2 also states that the EU allocation mechanisms for quotas and the format for company reports will not be replicated in the UK, as different IT systems will be established here. I understand that this IT system has also been completed, and I congratulate the Government on that achievement as well; while not wishing to appear churlish, let us hope that it will continue to operate successfully under stress.

Returning to costs and charters, I understand that this set-up cost has been financed through the Government. The Minister in the other place, Dr Coffey, stated:

“Future charges will be for the overall regulation system”.—[Official Report, Commons, Eighth Delegated Legislation Committee, 26/2/19; col. 8.]


Will the Minister clarify what that means for cost recovery? Will there be an element of repayment of capital included in running cost recovery of fees from operating companies? That is, will companies ultimately be charged for this set-up cost?

The Government will also continue paying into the Montreal Protocol assistance fund to help developing nations across the world move to less harmful gases. Can the Minister confirm whether industry will be re-charged any of these contributions? It would be good to understand whether the Government have included either of these potential costs as possible cost recovery items out for consultation.

The final concern in this regard is about impact assessment. While the Government are satisfied that the cost is de minimis, as the Minister explained, have they assessed whether the new charges could impact on companies’ costs in a way that will affect whether they continue to operate in the UK? Several companies operate across the UK and in the EU, and their quotas will come from both in future. Are the Government satisfied that any disruption will not detrimentally impact on these companies continuing in the UK in such a way that the Government may have to use their new powers of increasing quotas to make up for a closure of any company’s shortfall to maintain the UK in a steady state? In their dialogue with companies when undertaking these regulations, can the Government confirm that companies operating across borders are generally satisfied with the outcome? One element behind this question on reciprocity—mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Miller—is whether UK trading certificates and authorisations will be accepted in the EU after exit in the same way, replicating the recognition of EU certificates in the UK.

I am sure that all contributors to this order will agree that these regulations are vital to the safeguarding of the environment across the world. Can the Minister confirm that, despite abiding by the increasing quota restrictions since 2015, these have been effective in reducing emissions? That is, are they working as envisaged, without loopholes appearing such as displacements on to other gases not specified in the protocols?

While these regulations appear technical, they will certainly be important to companies operating in the UK and the EU, especially given the lack of coherent data on how they may be reapportioned in individual quotas. Can the Minister confirm that, through the Government’s discussions, all the operators essentially agree with the regulations and their individual outcomes, and that any potential disputes can be reconciled via due process through the Environment Agency?

--- Later in debate ---

What has been the impact and has this reduced emissions? It has. We know that the regulations took a little time to come into place—I accept that that was when the EU regulations were put into place. Now that they are in place, the amount of gas being placed on the market is already 37% below 2015 levels, so the EU regulations are having a significant effect. What noble Lords are being asked to approve today is for those EU regulations to be copied over and for some small changes to be made to make sure that they continue to work in the UK and that we too can continue to reduce our usage of F-gases and monitor the very small use of ODSs.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I thank my noble friend for her clarification on the costs. I had one thought: if the Environment Agency was to decide to recover the administrative costs, would it be possible for it to look at charging smaller companies a smaller amount of money? This was done in relation to the changes on data and was very well received. I do not ask for a commitment, but I make that proposal.