Health and Social Care Bill

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greaves]

My Lords, I want to pick up on a point that I made on Monday. We are discussing the role, duties and powers of CCGs, and I want to talk about commissioning services. Where contracts are negotiated with existing providers—whether they are within the National Health Service, the voluntary sector or the private sector—it is fairly clear to see how the system will operate. However, I am not clear—and perhaps the Minister can enlighten me—about the role of CCGs in promoting and creating new services or facilities within the NHS.

The example that I particularly want to refer to concerns the provision of new health centres in my own area of east Lancashire. These are new significant capital schemes but they are not the direct responsibility of the hospital trust. Where the responsibility is that of the hospital trust, it will no doubt be responsible for the provision of new capital schemes. Here we have facilities that will be partly occupied by GPs; they may well be occupied in part by community-based services that are now the responsibility of the hospital trust. The hospital trust may wish to make use of the facilities as outreach facilities for day patients, and so on, but they do not fit neatly into the hospital trust. At the moment, they are the responsibility of the PCT. The existing primary care trust in east Lancashire has now approved in principle the provision of three health centres in three towns—Great Harwood, Clitheroe and my own town of Colne. Because of the changes and the fact that the PCT is not responsible in the future, it has now been passed to the cluster of PCTs, which is at a Lancashire level, and will have to be approved by the strategic health authority.

These are all bodies that in future will not exist. Who will be responsible for this kind of capital project within the NHS in future? It is not just a question of commissioning within an existing landscape of provision in different sectors, but a question of commissioning new services and new capital projects that do not fit into the hospital trusts. Will that be done at a national level? Will it be the responsibility of the CCG? Who will be responsible for the provision of finance for this kind of project?

[Baroness Masham of Ilton]

My Lords, this group of important amendments illustrates that good care for all is what is needed. I shall say a few words on Amendment 79 on long-term conditions. As has been said, there are many long-term conditions, and there is great anxiety all over the country because of the change. What the Minister says today will be very important and may allay some of the distress. There is a shortage of district nurses, which is an important issue for people who need dressings for leg ulcers, for example, which can last for a long time.

On a positive note, there is telecare and telehealth and other new technology for monitoring. People can be monitored in their own homes. If something goes wrong, people can call emergency services. Scotland is doing much better than England, and other countries in Europe, such as Poland and Holland, are using the system a lot. England could do a lot better for people with long-term conditions.

All the amendments in this group are exceedingly important and I am glad that my noble friend Lord Ramsbotham mentioned prisons and people in cells. When I went to see prisoners being processed, a GP was trying to fathom out what to do with a really serious alcoholic. I asked, “What are you going to do?”, and he replied, “If only I had some rehabilitation services for alcoholics, I wouldn’t have to send him to prison. What will happen is that he will be in and out all the time”. Many things can be made better, and I hope that the noble Earl will give us some hope when he responds.

[The Countess of Mar]

My Lords, I rise briefly to support Amendment 79 moved by the noble Lord, Lord Warner, although he should not have moved it at this stage perhaps; he should have just spoken to it.

As the Minister knows, I am concerned about people with CFS/ME. They are the most neglected, denigrated and discriminated-against group in the country and there are some 60,000 of them who are severely ill, which means that they are homebound and bed-bound. They have multi-system symptoms, which are far too often neglected. They have co-morbidities—one person that I know of, who has had ME since she was 15 and is now 30, has severe gynaecological problems but because she has ME they are not going look at those. Also, she gets no social care. It is very important that these services are thoroughly integrated and that people understand that because you have ME it does not mean to say that all you need is a little bit of CBT and GET and you can get up and go. We have got to provide for people who are severely ill. So I support the noble Lord, Lord Warner, and the noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley.

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[Baroness Gould of Potternewton]

My Lords, I support these amendments, which are so relevant to recent proposals in the Select Committee report on HIV/AIDS. The Bill calls for the Secretary of State to take steps to promote public health in England from disease or dangers to health. Without a doubt the most effective way of achieving that aim is through the provision of public information, advice and awareness-raising campaigns, first, in respect of prevention and, secondly, in respect of early treatment and care.

That proposal would mean the promotion of early testing as well as testing for the estimated 22,000 people who have HIV but do not know that they are infected and who, as a consequence, are likely to transmit the disease further. It would also ensure the availability of testing. At the moment the venues for testing are fairly restricted but the Government are considering proposals by the HPA and NICE to widen the range of settings where testing might take place, particularly in areas of high prevalence. We await the Government’s decision on those reports. The need to raise awareness of early testing is crucial to prevent onward transmission of the disease. There is no better example than the evidence obtained from antenatal clinics which have had campaigns and have given information to pregnant women about mother-to-child transmission and where the number of such cases is now extremely low. That advice should be taken by the Government.

I raise these points specifically because the Government’s response to the Select Committee on the need for awareness-raising campaigns did not give the assurances that we might have hoped for. While there are campaigns currently targeted at those most at risk of HIV—we hope that they will continue, but we are not certain that that will be the case—it was very short-sighted that there was no guarantee of the inclusion of HIV on any national sexual health campaigns, if in fact there are to be any. This amendment would be helpful in making that happen. There was a complete rejection of campaigns directed at the general public. Those were not considered to be necessary, yet we know that there is a growing diversification of HIV into other communities. For those people, early diagnosis is essential.

There was, however, a welcome for a web-based campaign run by the National AIDS Trust, which is specifically designed to get prevention and awareness messages to the general public. In a sense, therefore, we have a little contradiction in the need, and the process does go round in a circle. Lack of awareness by the public is one reason why the stigma of HIV persists and why there are so many mistaken beliefs about HIV. It is often the fear of that stigma that deters people who might be at risk from going for HIV testing or even STI testing. Effective awareness-raising campaigns would overcome some of those difficulties and are essential if we are to promote early testing and reduce the levels of HIV, which are growing each year, and thus reduce the levels of transmission.

It seems to me that not to have those campaigns is not only poor health practice but economically short-sighted. The HPA suggests that, if we had prevented the estimated 3,800 or so HIV infections acquired in the UK in 2010, we would have saved over £35 million annually, or £1.2 billion over a lifetime of cost. Treatment is very expensive. That seems to me an enormous amount of money when compared to the cost of running effective and regular public awareness-raising campaigns. Surely common sense tells us that the campaigns should continue.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton]

My Lords, these amendments relating to campaigns are very important. My question is: who will be carrying them out? I would like to highlight the problems of late diagnosis of HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, hepatitis B and C, and meningitis.

Many people are living with HIV/AIDS who do not know that they are infected. There needs to be sensitive targeting of campaigns. If diagnosis is late, the condition is much more difficult and expensive to treat, as has been said. There are often co-infections of HIV/AIDS and tuberculosis. Late diagnosis in TB is very dangerous. Along with the growing problem of drug-resistant TB, there is extensively drug-resistant tuberculosis, which is very dangerous and much more expensive to treat and takes much longer.

I would like to mention the effective and important work of the group Find & Treat, which goes out to find homeless and other people who are difficult to find, who may have TB, and test them. The group now wants to test for co-infections, which would be much more effective and less expensive in the long run. This type of infection is on the increase. There is a fear that, unless local authorities and the National Health Service work together, there may be fragmentation, and these people, who should be treated early, may fall through the net. Find & Treat needs all the support that it can get to carry on this very important work.

Hepatitis B is very infectious, but there is now a vaccination, which is good. However, there is no vaccination for hepatitis C. Both types of hepatitis have been found to be a huge problem in prisons. There is a problem of liver disease with hepatitis C. Early diagnosis is important for all infections. In the case of meningitis, there have been far too many tragedies because of late diagnosis. The public—and doctors—need to be reminded continually how important this issue is by means of campaigns and guidelines. My GP always waits for guidelines from the Department of Health.

[Baroness Randerson]

My Lords, I speak in support of these amendments tabled by my noble friend. I strongly welcome the provisions in this Bill that ensure that the NHS and local governments work together on public health. I believe that these provisions are long overdue. However, as my noble friend said, we need to ensure that central responsibility and control is retained to be able to have high-profile, national public health campaigns.

I am the co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Hepatology and I participate today from that perspective. I wish to speak especially about hepatitis C. In the summer, the group produced a report emphasising the points that I am making about the importance of national public health campaigns. The current proposals will affect those suffering from this disease and will improve the response at a local level. However, they will also ensure that we need a national response. Hepatitis C is a preventable and curable cancer-causing, blood-borne virus. The main groups affected are intravenous drug users, or those who have been, and certain ethnic groups from south Asia who were also badly affected because, very tragically, they were immunised in childhood during mass immunisation campaigns using dirty needles.

As has been said, a stigma is attached to hepatitis C, as it is to HIV/AIDS. As a result of that stigma, it has largely been ignored by government ever since it was first identified in the late 1980s. Deaths from the disease are rising; mortality has risen by between 39 and 45 per cent since 2005 and the number estimated to be affected is between 250,000 and 466,000. I say “estimated” because the majority of those affected are undiagnosed. That is the key point in relation to public health campaigns.

The picture in Britain is not the same as the picture in most of the rest of Europe. Elsewhere deaths from the disease are falling because there have been high-profile public campaigns and strategies to deal with the disease. As a result, diagnosis has been very much earlier. I said that the majority of people suffering from the disease are undiagnosed, but why is that? They are undiagnosed because it is a tricky disease. It remains asymptomatic for 10, 20 or even 30 years, and by the time the symptoms occur it may be too late for a cure. It is certainly very possible that any attempts at treatment are very complex and expensive. That outcome can be a result of the stigma, but it can also be a result of ignorance because we have had no big public health campaigns. There is ignorance on the part of clinicians and the public. Delayed diagnosis costs not just lives but a great deal of money. There is a range of clinically effective and cost-effective treatments for the disease that can cure and that are recommended by NICE, and more and better treatments, due to go to NICE in the near future, are in the pipeline.

That is the background. As I see it, that is how the Bill will help, but it needs to be improved in order to help even more. The local government NHS LINk will enable local public health campaigns to focus on local needs. Given the list of at-risk groups that I have described, it is obvious that an area with a high population of those from south Asia, for example, will be enabled to target their health messages appropriately. An area that is aware that it has a particular problem with drug use will do the same. Of course, many people will be affected by the disease who do not live in those target areas, and they need to be screened and treated in the same way, so local campaigns need to supplement and bolster national information campaigns, not replace them.

We have already heard from my noble friend reference to the dementia campaign that is currently being run, and there has been reference to the AIDS campaign. I would say very strongly to the Minister that we need a hepatitis C campaign of similar impact. Without the proposals in these amendments, I believe that there might not be sufficient obligation on the Government to co-ordinate these campaigns. I very much look forward to Minister’s response on this issue.

My final point is that successful national and local campaigns will inevitably have a knock-on effect on commissioning services. More patients will be diagnosed, and that will mean more needing treatment. In the long term, of course, there will be a fall-off in the demand for treatment because of higher public awareness and, one hopes, very much safer behaviour as a result. That fall-off will take years, however, and it is essential that GP services, hospitals services and, for example, drug and alcohol action teams all have the increased capacity brought into line at the same time as such campaigns take place. It is therefore even more important that there is the central control and direction to which I referred. That is just one example; other noble Lords have given similar examples, and I urge the Minister to give this serious consideration.

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[Baroness Masham of Ilton]

My Lords, providing services for the prevention and treatment of harmful drinking and alcohol dependence is essential. Alcoholism ruins many lives. There is a very worrying rise in liver disease, especially among young women, caused by a combination of hepatitis C, which we have discussed today, and dangerous levels of drinking. It is causing great pressure on hospitals’ liver disease wards.

Those in young offender institutions and prisons have often been involved in domestic violence, drink-driving, fights and violent crime due to too much alcohol. For years, prisons have had money for drug-abuse rehabilitation, but very little for alcohol misuse, although the problem has been bigger. As a result of the problems alcohol contributes to crime, I hope that the Government will try to promote alcohol-misuse rehabilitation in prisons. It should not be left out.

Huge pressure is put on the staff of A&E departments, especially on Friday and Saturday nights, by alcohol abuse. One young doctor who works in an A&E department here in London told me the other day that he was concerned that it took so much longer to attend to patients who were drunk that he felt that some other patients were being put at risk. Alcohol abuse can cause all sorts of problems. It should have concerted effort spent on it. Many voluntary organisations help with alcohol-abuse rehabilitation, but the private centres are very expensive and are not available to most people. There is also the problem of coaddiction to drugs and alcohol which has affected many young lives.

[Lord MacKenzie of Culkein]

I have put my name to Amendment 202 which deals with general practitioners. I do not intend to detain the Committee because the points I was going to make have already been eloquently made by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, and others. I want to reiterate the point about general practitioners not identifying alcohol misuse. For the life of me, I cannot understand why there is no quality assessment framework indicator for screening for alcohol and why that is not part of the programme. There is evidence that screening works, as the noble Lord, Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe, said. It is clinically cost-effective. There is an urgent need to prioritise the issue of alcohol abuse, and this amendment gives us that opportunity. I hope that the Minister will be able to say something positive about that this evening.