Customs Clearance Arrangements at UK Ports

Baroness Kramer Excerpts

Monday 19th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

In response to the first question, what the Secretary of State for Transport described is pretty similar to what I said in the Answer to the Urgent Question about our desiring a frictionless border between ourselves and the European Union and a deep and ongoing partnership. Clearly, “frictionless” has connotations relating to particular checks which could be undertaken at roll-on, roll-off ferry terminals such as Dover, which are important to the economy.

On the second point, the noble Lord invites me to think about whether there are other examples which could be pointed to in this regard. But again, we are looking for something unique, innovative and different. We believe that it is possible; the fact that we are seeing agreement on the implementation period just today shows that it is possible with good will on both sides.

Finally, the noble Lord asked about HMRC and computer systems. That was one of the reasons why the Chancellor announced in his Autumn Budget that a total of £3 billion will be made available and, specifically, that £260 million will be made available to HMRC to prepare itself for the outcome. Therefore the resources are there. To touch on the point the noble Lord made about technology, that is interesting, because it is not as if at the moment the UK does not have any expertise in trading with the rest of the world. It does so quite frequently, and if you go down to Felixstowe or other places, you will see significant amounts of imports that come through and are dealt with in an incredibly efficient and effective way, using technology. We are seeking simply to take that technology and to give it wider usage so that it achieves our objective of a frictionless border that enhances both trade in the EU and for the UK.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister understand that even companies that have obtained trusted trader status—it is expensive—do not use it, because it is so complicated and expensive that they have found that it is not worth while? Secondly, he will know that in the container ports he cites, goods coming long distance are on ships for days and even weeks, which is why trusted trader status can be used in those situations; it takes so long that it cannot be used at an equivalent of Dover, where you have a roll-on, roll-off situation. Does the Minister also recognise that coming through the Dover port, and intermingled with the kinds of operations that could perhaps seek trusted trader status, are vans that have the accumulated goods for 12 small companies, Amazon delivery vans, and so on? The traffic is so completely mixed, and because there is no space at Dover or any capacity to pull out any of the trucks, the mechanism he describes is in effect one of turning a blind eye.

Picking up the Government proposals for dealing with the Irish border, where essentially small businesses, which account for 80% of cross-border traffic, would not be checked, that, again, is the blind-eye strategy. Does the noble Lord understand the implications for smuggling and for abuse of the system of what he is talking about? We already have extensive fuel smuggling at the Irish border and extensive abuse of the VAT tariff differential. He is now creating an opportunity in not just Ireland but at the UK ports, especially the ro-ros, for criminal activity on a scale which this country has fought deeply in the past.

[Lord Bates]

The noble Baroness takes a very pessimistic view of this matter. We believe that we are taking a realistic and optimistic view of the potential agreements. For example, we believe that it is in everybody’s interest to ensure that this process takes place. If we look at the balance of trade between ourselves and the EU, there is a deficit of £96 billion on trade in goods, which suggests that it is very much in the enlightened self-interest of our European friends to ensure that that border is as frictionless as possible so that this trade can take place.

The noble Baroness referred to the situation in Northern Ireland. Of course, there is a difference in duty on certain goods between the two countries, as she alluded to, and they have introduced mechanisms for dealing with that. They have a variety of means of doing so, not just technology. They use some physical checks, particularly to clamp down on the fuel element of that traffic, so I believe that where there is a political will, there is a way. We believe that a will to make this frictionless border happen has been demonstrated, and that is what we are working towards.