Passenger and Goods Vehicles (Recording Equipment) (Downloading of Data) Regulations 2015

Baroness Kramer Excerpts

Tuesday 10th February 2015 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Baroness Kramer]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Passenger and Goods Vehicles (Recording Equipment) (Downloading of Data) Regulations 2015.

Relevant document: 20th Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD)]

My Lords, these draft regulations are being made to remove unnecessary gold-plating of EU rules by giving transport operators longer to download data of drivers’ hours from digital tachographs. The change was recommended in the Government’s Red Tape Challenge and Logistics Growth Review, and removes unnecessary restrictions on operators. It is estimated that it will save hauliers nearly £1 million a year, as well as giving some operators much-needed flexibility.

For the benefit of noble Lords who may not be aware, EU drivers’ hours rules apply to goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes and passenger vehicles with 10 or more seats, unless covered by a range of specific EU-wide exemptions and national derogations. Drivers and operators of vehicles that are in scope of these rules are required to fit and use a tachograph—a mechanical device that records, in real time, each driver’s driving time.

Operators are required to download data from digital tachographs and from drivers’ tachograph cards at regular intervals to check their drivers’ compliance with the rules relating to drivers’ hours. The 28-day maximum interval between downloads of the driver card data will remain unchanged. These regulations lengthen from 56 days to 90 days the maximum interval transport operators are permitted between data downloads, bringing GB hauliers in line with the maximum permitted under the EU rules.

The Government’s consultation on this change was published on the department’s website between December 2012 and February 2013. The proposed 90-day limit was welcomed by operators, particularly those involved in long, international journeys and tours, as the additional flexibility would alleviate the problems that they currently encounter trying to download the data while abroad. Enforcement agencies can require operators to produce records at any time, and can access a driver’s or vehicle’s records at the roadside, so this added flexibility for operators will not have implications for the enforcement of the drivers’ hours rules. In addition, most operators download data from the tachograph much more frequently as part of their routine maintenance checks.

Improving conditions for growth in the logistics sector is critical to the Government’s growth agenda, and this change forms part of a package of measures that the Government are bringing forward to help this vital industry, such as taking 76,000 mechanics and valets out of scope of burdensome EU rules on professional driver training and raising the speed limits for lorries on single and dual carriageway roads. This is a common-sense and industry-supported move to remove unnecessary restrictions on a key sector, helping it to make its contribution to Britain’s long-term economic plan. I beg to move.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for explaining the thinking behind the order, which increases the maximum interval that transport operators are permitted between downloads of drivers’ hours data from tachographs from 56 days to 90 days, which as has been said, is the maximum permitted interval under EU Commission Regulation No. 581/2010.

Will the Minister confirm that one of the effects of this change will be to enable operators who already seek to undermine drivers’ hours legislation to have an additional 34 days to break that legislation without detection and, as a result, the DVSA will potentially have a month less to prepare a prosecution case against historical drivers’ hours offences? If that is the case, what is the Government’s assessment of the impact of that on road safety, since on a fairly quick look-through it does not seem to be covered in the impact assessment?

Indeed, the impact assessment, dated last July, states that the DVSA thought that adopting the 90-day maximum European timescales could hinder enforcement as it could make it more difficult to gather evidence from prosecutions within the six-month deadline imposed by the courts. If Ministers have now managed to persuade the DVSA of the error of their thinking, perhaps the Minister will confirm that that is the case, and indicate either why the DVSA has misunderstood the situation, or what changes have been made to address the concerns raised by the DVSA.

There are already concerns about the DVSA’s enforcement capabilities. According to government answers, the relevant agency made 43,000 fewer checks under drivers’ hours regulations for foreign-registered HGVs at the roadside last year than four years ago and less than half the number of foreign HGV drivers breaking the drivers’ hours rules received prohibitions or fixed-penalty notices last year than four years ago. For what reason have the Government presided over this considerable reduction in both checks and prohibitions and fixed-penalty notices?

Under the current requirement to download data at least every 56 days, what is the Government’s assessment of the current percentage of operators who already breach drivers’ hours legislation to a greater or lesser degree? Once again, on a relatively quick look through the impact assessment, that issue does not seem to be addressed in it, yet non-compliance not only risks the safety of drivers and other road users but undermines fair competition and adversely affects the majority of operators who adhere to the rules. Have the Government considered bringing forward tougher measures and sanctions to enforce weekly rest rules, as have apparently the French and Belgian Governments recently?

The Explanatory Memorandum indicates that a “targeted industry consultation” was undertaken. Can the Minister clarify what is meant by that? Is it a euphemism for saying, “We consulted rather fewer people and organisations than normal”? The Explanatory Memorandum refers to the 20 responses received, which seems a relatively small number unless it turns out that the targeted consultation only invited that number or not many more to respond. Where did the 20 responses come from and how many were in favour of the change in the limit and how many voiced opposition or expressed reservations? How many people or organisations were invited to respond? Why could this information not have been provided in the Explanatory Memorandum under paragraph 8, headed “Consultation Outcome”? There appears to be some separate document on the outcome of the consultation. I do not think—I am prepared to be corrected—that reference is even made in the Explanatory Memorandum to such a document. All that I have been able to find is a passing reference to it tucked away on page 5 of the impact assessment.

The Explanatory Memorandum states that,

“many operators already download data from the vehicle unit more regularly than the current 56 days required”,

as some 80% of HGVs need more frequent maintenance checks than that, but for those involved in long international journeys and tours of more than 56 days, the extended interval to 90 days would alleviate, as the Minister has said, a number of problems encountered when trying to download data while abroad.

Why, in order to address a problem faced by what I presume is a minority of operators involved in extended journeys and tours abroad, is it necessary to increase the limit to a maximum 90 days for all operators when it seems that many of them already download data more regularly than the current 56 days? How assiduously has the department tried to address the problems facing operators who are abroad for more than 56 days without changing the requirement for those operators who are not in that position?

We do not intend to oppose the order, but it would nevertheless help if the Minister could respond to the points that I have raised and provide some information on what the limit is in other comparable EU economies such as France and Germany, particularly as the impact assessment seeks to imply, but does not clearly state, that the change would bring us into line with our European counterparts.

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, I shall start by responding to the questions asked about the consultation—there may be some that I cannot cover because I do not have sufficient information at the moment, in which case we will be glad to write. The respondents were hauliers, Unite, traffic commissioners, ACPO, the police and tachograph analysis companies. That is quite a wide range across the industry.

The noble Lord asked about the DVSA. Obviously, we followed up its response to the consultation, and from those discussions our understanding is that it believes its enforcement powers, which enable it to access this information at any time, are the important measure which supports its enforcement activity. Therefore we are comfortable that we are not creating additional problems here for the DVSA. Indeed, the noble Lord will know—and this goes back to the whole question of safety which he discussed—that, increasingly, the whole approach to enforcement has been intelligence-led. That has always been true, but it has become even more so. He will be aware of the London task force, which I believe started its work in October 2013. That is a combined effort by the DVSA, Transport for London, the department and the Met to use a targeted approach, and it has been very successful in London by, again, using intelligence, so that the knowledge of the operators to helps drive the enforcement process, rather than simply using a random process which might have been more prevalent in the past.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Geddes) (Con)]

A Division has been called in the Chamber. The Grand Committee stands adjourned.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Kramer]

I am sure that interruptions to the flow will only improve matters. I was talking about enforcement when we took a break for the Division. One of the questions that the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, raised was whether the DVSA was doing sufficient checks. He is right that the number of checks is down but, as a result of the enhanced targeting I described, there has been a quite dramatic increase in the effectiveness of those checks. On drivers’ hours the prohibition rate has risen from 15.7% in 2009-10 to 18.1% in 2013-14, and on roadworthiness from 31.8% in 2009-10 to 37.7% in 2013-14.

[Lord Rosser]

In the light of that, those figures still mean that the number of prohibitions and fixed penalty notices has gone down. The percentage may have gone up, but that should be compared with the large reduction in the number of checks, prohibitions and fixed penalty notices. What is a relatively small increase in the percentage surely still means that the number of checks, prohibitions and fixed penalty notices has gone down. Would the Minister confirm this?

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, surely what we are all looking for is effectiveness, which we need. Having a more effective way of tackling this problem strikes me as important, since the issue we are looking at is the recording of tachograph information.

[Lord Rosser]

I am sorry, is the Minister arguing that having a reduction in the number of checks, prohibitions and fixed penalty notices, which she has not denied, makes it more effective?

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, I am simply arguing that the important thing is catching those who are breaking the law and breaking the rules, and to do so effectively. The mode of working that has now been adopted is more effective. Surely effectiveness is something that we are all seeking to achieve.

Going back to the subject of this regulation, one of the key elements is the downloading of driver data. That interval for doing so remains 28 days. Operators remain responsible for their drivers being in compliance—that has not changed either. The noble Lord noted that, for most companies, the common way of downloading the vehicle data is simply to do it at the time of maintenance on the vehicle, which for most companies is more frequently even than 56 days. The outer time limit and the actuality are not in fact particularly closely linked. The way that operators work means that the data are downloaded far more regularly.

The noble Lord also asked about countries in continental Europe and what benchmarks they were using. I can tell him that France, Austria, Belgium, Germany and Italy all have 90-day limits. That may give him some comfort that we are working within the same kind of range as continental Europe.

[Lord Rosser]

The Minister quite rightly referred again to the problems being faced by operators that have vehicles abroad on extended journeys; the maximum of 90 days will certainly make life easier for them. However, they are a relatively small percentage of the number covered. I asked how assiduously the department has tried to address the problems facing operators abroad for more than 56 days without changing the requirement for operators that are not in that position, in light of what the Minister has repeated—that most of them do it more frequently than every 56 days. Why could it not have been a more targeted approach to address where the problem apparently lies?

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, one of the reasons for having a consultation, which the industry was widely aware of, was to provide an opportunity to come up with other mechanisms. This one appears to have an appropriate benefit in giving that greater and necessary flexibility to operators who have vehicles travelling overseas, but it does not create additional enforcement issues domestically. As the noble Lord said, most operators download the data more frequently anyway. We have moved towards a pattern of enforcement that is based far more on intelligence than on random checks. A random turn-up at an operator is not likely; it would be an intelligence-led arrival at an operator’s premises.

There is also the regular process of enforcement through approaches such as that of the London task force. There are now thoughts about whether this approach could be taken in places such as Manchester. Using that intelligence-led information and using the opportunity to enforce readings of both the driver and the vehicle unit tachometers at the roadside are among the primary tools of enforcement.

Therefore, making this change does not seem to us to undermine the enforcement process. It provides some additional flexibility for companies which have vehicles overseas and which have had problems trying to meet the 56-day benchmark simply because their vehicle is somewhere on the continent. Although it may be a relatively small change—as I admit it is—it is surely no bad thing to lift a burden of about £1 million off the industry, particularly in the highly competitive world in which companies must currently operate.

The case for making these changes is there is no weakening of the key enforcement mechanisms, which remain in place, and that enforcement mechanisms are more effective today than they have been historically—which surely has to be a good thing. The download of the drivers’ card, which is the primary method for measuring drivers’ hours, continues to be every 28 days; the download of data from the vehicle at 90 days, which in a sense is back-up or a cross-check, is not causing, as we understand it, any concerns to either the enforcement or the operators. The noble Lord said, “Well, surely this is unfair to good operators”, but operators have not come to us and said, “Don’t do this”, and there are many good operators based in the UK who surely would have raised that issue if they felt that it was a concern.

Therefore, with all those issues in mind—and as I say, if I have missed out on specific questions that the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, raised, I will try to get back to him in writing—I commend the regulations.

[Lord Rosser]

I think that the Minister said that she would write to me on the issue of the consultation and how many people or organisations were invited to respond, since I am still not sure what a “targeted industry consultation” is a euphemism for, and clearly it means something. On the face of it, 20 responses does not seem a particularly high number, but that begs the question of how many were invited. I asked how many had voiced opposition or reservations about the changes, and I appreciate that the Minister said right at the beginning that she would respond subsequently to me on the consultation. However, I would also be grateful, since I do not think that I have had a clear answer to the question, if, when the Minister comes to reply, she could confirm or deny that the number of checks, prohibitions and fixed penalty notices has gone down over the past four years. The answer to that question is either yes or no, because I am still not clear how a reduction—which is what I think it has been—actually improves the situation. Perhaps the Minister could address that in the letter she will send to me on the consultation.

[Baroness Kramer]

I will be very glad to do that, because our target, obviously, is safety, and that is the absolute standard we have to go by. With that understanding, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, will be satisfied.

Motion agreed.