Sharia Law

Baroness King of Bow Excerpts

Thursday 11th December 2014 Grand Committee

[Baroness King of Bow (Lab)]

My Lords, I wish to touch on three areas during this debate: first, the areas where there are clearly no conflicts between the use of Sharia courts and the law of this land; secondly, the areas where there clearly are conflicts between the use of Sharia courts and the law of the land; and, thirdly—and I realise that this will be disappointing to some people in the debate—is the unfortunate conflation which I often hear between Sharia law, religious extremism and persistent forms of Islamophobia.

I start by saying that I admire virtually all the world’s great religions because, by and large, their original prophets exhorted their followers to be peaceful, empathetic and active citizens who treat others with humanity and humility. That is the theory. Nowhere is this clearer than in the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad and those around him at the birth of Islam. Personally, I wish that we listened more to what they had said, rather than less. I am Jewish—I should say that I am a Jewish atheist—but I studied Islam at university. I was very surprised to find that, as it turns out, by the standards of his time, the Prophet Muhammad was basically a raving feminist when looking at the situation surrounding him in the 7th century. The Prophet would never sanction what has been done in his name in recent times, whether to women in this or any other country, or what is happening at the moment to the enemies of Islamic State.

The disciple closest to Muhammad was his cousin, Ali ibn Abi Talib, who Muhammad himself brought up and who was the first person to convert to Islam. I mention him because he is considered one of the foremost experts in Islamic jurisprudence, which is what we are debating today. It is amazing to look at the letter that he wrote to the emissary he was sending to govern Egypt in 658 AD, because it is a lesson to us all today. It holds lessons for us when considering the conflicting views in this debate. On the selection of a chief justice to deliver judgments in legal disputes, he gave the following instruction. He said that he should choose,

“one who cannot be intimidated … one who is not self-centred or avaricious, one who will not decide before knowing the full facts, one who will weigh with care every attendant doubt … who will examine with patience every new disclosure of fact and who will be strictly impartial in his decision, one who flattery cannot mislead”.

With regard to having patience at the disclosure of every fact, I was interested to hear the proposal of the noble Baroness, Lady Warsi, regarding marriage. That is a very important thing to consider.

On bloodshed, he said—again, one can only wish that the leaders of Islamic State would follow Ali ibn Abi Talib’s commands:

“Beware! Abstain from shedding blood without a valid cause. There is nothing more harmful than this which brings about one’s ruin. The blood that is wilfully shed shortens the life of a state. On the Day of Judgment it is this crime for which one will have to answer first. So, beware! Do not wish to build the strength of your state on blood ... Before me and my God no excuse for wilful killing can be entertained”.

Given that the founders of Islam were so keen that Muslims were fair and just, and that they built their legal system on fair and just principles, why is there such uproar about Sharia in Britain today? Why does it so often seem that so much of our debate is governed by the Daily Mail? We have to weigh that Islamophobic hysteria against the problems and discrimination that have been shown to exist towards women within some rulings of some Sharia councils.

The obvious point is that, although Sharia gave women in the seventh and eighth centuries more entitlements than they previously had, today in some areas of Sharia, such as inheritance and divorce, it gives them less entitlement. As we all agree, everyone in Britain must be equal before the law. Thus, wherever Sharia does not conflict with this requirement, Muslims should have exactly the same rights as other religious groups in Britain, such as Christians and Jews, to seek guidance from institutions within their respective faith. At the same time, equally obviously, they must always have the right to take any dispute to a British court. I do not think that any of us disagree on that.

It is important to flag up that Sharia is different things to different people. Different Islamic sects interpret Sharia rulings differently. Even within sects, opinions and rulings vary among scholars. Therefore, it is difficult to use the broad-brush term “Sharia law”. One problem is the unregulated nature of the Sharia councils, to which attention has been drawn. This is where they differ slightly from, for example, the similar religious Jewish councils. Nobody really knows the number of Sharia courts or councils in the UK but I wonder whether the Minister can give us the latest estimate. The latest study in 2009 by Civitas suggested that there was evidence of at least 85 Sharia councils across Britain, but the number could be far higher.

It is also very important to distinguish between the actions of arbitrators or tribunals working on a formal level and those operating informally, and the difference between applying actual judgments and giving advice. It is crucial to make it 100% clear, as the noble Baroness, Lady Warsi, did and as I think everyone here accepts, that Sharia law is not part of the British legal system, and there are absolutely no plans to make it a part of our legal system.

The Sharia councils that have been in existence here since the 1980s have to operate as tribunals under the Arbitration Act 1996. The Act allows for consenting adults to resolve disputes and conflicts, be they civil or commercial, as long as they do not conflict with UK law. The same applies to the Jewish Beth Din courts. Jewish families have that right. My mother was brought up in an orthodox Jewish family, although it was not that orthodox because her mother had converted. There was a question over whether her parents’ marriage was kosher, so to speak, and it was the Beth Din court that my family went to. I do not think that in a tolerant society it is up to others to say, “No, you can’t go and seek counsel from your religious institutions and organisations”. It is not the choice that I would make—as I said, I am an atheist and I take a secular approach on all matters—but I absolutely believe that it is the right of those who are guided by their faith to have that choice, and we have to ensure that that choice does not conflict with the absolute need for women in Britain not to be discriminated against because they choose to use a Sharia council.

In closing, I ask the Minister where we are up to in increasing the regulation around Sharia bodies, and whether he is convinced that their activities currently fall within the Arbitration Act 1996. Is he also convinced that they uphold fundamental human rights for all citizens, and what further action does he believe is required to ensure that they are properly monitored, so that neither women nor individuals from other groups face any discrimination, intentional or otherwise, for choosing to receive guidance and rulings from their religious faith bodies?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

No, I am not saying that, and the noble Baroness is correct to point that out. The same common law principles would apply in that case. I would like to clarify one thing. The point was made on a couple of occasions about access within Sharia for a woman to take a divorce. Again, this is the difference between theory and practice. The avenue does exist. There is the concept of Khula which allows a woman to take a divorce without citing a reason. The problem arises in certain communities because although some practise this very well, others unfortunately do not make it available. That is where the focus should be. I want to be absolutely clear that, in the context of concerns about Muslim marriages and Sharia councils, the Government believe that the key issue is raising the primacy of English law and the importance of a clear understanding of how English law works.

My noble friend raised the issue of recognising the nikah in terms of the law of the land. She will know from her experience as a Minister, and she also speaks very ably as a lawyer, that there are certain complexities that we need to address. This is far more than just a simple issue, a simple adjustment to make. It would need careful consideration before the Government could give any commitment. I am sure she appreciates that there are things that need to be discussed fully to balance out what the implications of that would be. I have already alluded to the importance of communities coming together to effect real change. We can amplify the message of those communities where women are not empowered to speak up and help them to get their messages out, but we believe that building integration is ultimately the responsibility of everyone in society.

This is a useful and timely debate. Let me assure the noble Baronesses, Lady Flather and Lady Cox, and, indeed, all noble Lords, that, as they know, I am personally committed to ensuring the eradication of some of the challenges we have seen, such as the evils of forced marriage. The Government have been very serious about this. Indeed, as noble Lords will know, we took steps by criminalising this heinous activity. As we have seen with FGM as well as with forced marriages, the important thing is first of all to ensure that this is communicated effectively, and that people understand what the law of the land means. It is important to make that accessible to all people and to educate people in that respect as well.

I wish to conclude my remarks today by thanking all noble Lords who participated in what has been a very useful debate. I again underline the fact that what defines our great country of Britain is that it allows people to practise, profess, propagate and preach their faith with great freedom and liberty across all boundaries. It does not matter who or where you are.

[Baroness King of Bow]

Before the Minister draws his remarks to a conclusion, could he give any further clarification on what if any legislative changes would be required to bring the activities of Sharia councils under further regulation at the present time? Or is it just a question of implementing guidance?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

There are no plans to legislate on Sharia councils in that sense. We believe that the rule of law should prevail, and I have re-emphasised that point. We see plenty of good practice within the Muslim community. For example, many Muslim communities employ a simple resolution to this question. Before any imam is sanctioned to perform a nikah ceremony, the couple are asked to produce a certificate of registration. That is a good practice, and it means that the civil marriage is registered prior to the Islamic marriage, ensuring protection for both men and women. It is right that we do not seek to interject in people’s religions from a government perspective, but where we see that there is good practice it should be shared across the country. That is certainly the approach that the Government are taking.

I note that I have a minute to go, so I will make full use of it by once again reiterating the Government’s commitment to ensuring that wherever we see abuse, whoever the perpetrator and whoever the victim, the Government will stand up strongly to provide protection. We have a strong record over the past four years of doing just that. Protecting religious identity is an important part of what defines our great nation, but not to the detriment of the rule of law. Ultimately, whatever religious practice one may follow and whatever religious community one may belong to, one thing prevails above all else, and that is the rule of law.