Environment and Wildlife (Legislative Functions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) Regulations 2019

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch Excerpts

Wednesday 16th October 2019 Grand Committee

[Lord Stunell (LD)]

I thank the Minister for her introduction. I am sure all Members of your Lordships’ House share her enthusiasm for CITES to be implemented fully in this country and for our legislative route to be absolutely clear cut and without any ambiguity. Therefore, from that point of view, nobody could object to what is in front of us today.

However, it seems to be an example, not the only one, of something drafted in haste and repented at leisure—or perhaps revised in haste, bearing in mind that there is only another fortnight to go before it might need to be implemented. I was somewhat reminded of my own experience when I was instructed to write 50 lines before I could go out to play. On presenting the 50 lines, I was told they were not tidy enough and had to write another 50 lines. I very much hope that this is the last time we will change this and that the Government—or the next Government, as the case may be—will move forward with it.

I am encouraged by what the Minister says about giving Ministers the right to tighten bans and regulations. That is good, although it is of course also true that with the power to tighten them would come the power to loosen them. She may want to comment a little on that. Overall, I wonder whether she is not just a little embarrassed at wasting our time on this one.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the noble Baroness to her new role. I look forward to working with her on many the hours of primary and secondary Defra legislation that we have before us. I am sure that they will be instructive to both of us. I echo the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, because we accept that this is just an exercise in correcting mistakes. We have always been concerned that errors and mistakes would creep in because of the speed with which some of this legislation is being pushed through, but we would not want to say or do anything that jeopardises the CITES agreement, which is very important to us.

The Minister will be pleased to know that I do not have any questions, but I echo the obvious point, which is that these mistakes should not happen and that there should be a better checking mechanism in the first place. I hope that this will be the last time that we will see this SI and that we can put it to bed.

[Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen]

I thank noble Lords for their comments. I could not agree more with the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, about the importance of CITES. It is doing some great work.

I can only apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, and the noble Lord, Lord Stunell. Perhaps I should be writing 50 lines that they can correct if they are wrong and I will have to write them over again. In its defence, the department has had to prepare an enormous number of SIs, most of which have been done absolutely excellently. I can only apologise for these mistakes.

The noble Lord, Lord Stunell, asked about the dangers in the way the powers can be used. As far as that is concerned, there will always be parliamentary scrutiny, whatever decision is made. We can feel safe in that respect.

I thank noble Lords very much for their queries.