Immigration Detention: Victims of Modern Slavery

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 18th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My noble friend asked whether it was mostly Chinese women who are detained. I do not think that we can give an answer to that—I do not have the statistics before me. However, we can all see in our day-to-day lives examples of where modern slavery may be going on, and in some cases those people are Chinese. On the claim that this should not sit with the Home Office, I am not sure where my noble friend thinks it should sit. The whole point of the national referral mechanism is that it is a multiagency mechanism which keys into NGOs and other agencies, all of which are there to support the victim and help them to move on from what has been terribly traumatic.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, a recent report on this under a freedom of information request showed that, with children who had been recognised as victims of modern-day slavery, having been trafficked over here, when it came to being settled and being given leave to remain, the other arm of the Home Office was busy deporting them once they reached their 18th birthday. This revelation has just come out, as I said, through a freedom of information request. I read it yesterday in a report—the noble Baroness may have seen it. Is this not a complete contradiction, driving a coach and horses through the Government’s Modern Slavery Act? Surely, if we are protecting children, we cannot then deport them a week later when they reach their 18th birthday. There is a harrowing example of a Vietnamese girl being sent back to the very country from where she was trafficked, where she is known, and where she will almost certainly be in grave danger. What are the Government doing to stop this and to go back to the basis of what they say they believe in, which is protecting the victims of modern-day slavery?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness will probably know that, first, we do not detain children —she is absolutely right that children are granted our protection—and all children, no matter what the circumstances of our protection here, are reassessed as they approach their 18th birthday. On sending someone back to face a repeated danger, that would be taken into consideration. We would not send someone back somewhere where they would face harm.

Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 4th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The issue of Operation Conifer allowed the police to look at the guidance and make sure that it is as clear as it can be. As I said, there is no evidence that the police are flouting that guidance. I hope that that situation will continue.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, child abuse is endemic in many institutions and has been historically. What is being done to ensure that people who are now older, but who suffered so terribly in different institutions, are still encouraged to come forward, give evidence and seek justice? We know that many have already committed suicide or died, but it is very important that we do not forget that those children and young people need protecting.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right; many of those children are now well into adulthood, and it is very important that people feel that they can come forward and give their testimony to the inquiry. More than 320 individual victims and survivors are participants in the inquiry, as well as a number of other survivor groups and institutions. To date, the inquiry has received almost 2 million pages of evidence, while more than 300 witnesses have given evidence.

Windrush Compensation Scheme

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 3rd April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

On the noble Lord’s last question about the number being lost, it will be of course be a digital token, a digital identity. I acknowledge the fears that some people who are resisting it have about something which is not on paper. It may make them feel insecure but it is probably more secure than a piece of paper which can easily be lost. I totally agree with his point about the culture, which had grown over successive years into a situation where we were more likely not to believe people than to believe them and, over decades, the Windrush tragedy happened. On the question of ensuring that it does not happen again, I refer to the answer I gave previously about Wendy Williams carrying out the lessons learned review. Identity assurance—this goes back to the noble Lord’s question about having a physical document—as it has grown up from the 1970s onwards, has become more important for people in everyday life to enable them to work, to rent and to prove that they are who they say they are.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

I acknowledge the Minister saying that it was a travesty—it is a travesty and a tragedy—but my noble friend Lord Paddick asked how proactive the Government will be in compensating and reaching these people who were wrongly deported and have been treated so shabbily. We have read of terrible cases where people have died, been denied cancer care and deported. Over the years, a number of people under the radar have been deported. The fact that they were deported means that the Home Office must have a record of who those people are and so, instead of waiting for them to contact us or their respective Governments if they are already in the country to which they were deported, what are the Government going to do to contact them? As the Government must have a record of paying for their flight back to their country of origin, surely they should be proactive in bringing them back or compensating them if they are not in a position to come back and are living in poverty in another country. Can the Minister say specifically what proactive measures are being taken to deal with that?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness asks a perfectly logical question about what we have done about some of the people who we might have wrongly removed from this country. Officials spent a long time doing a manual trawl of some of the people we removed. I had the numbers—the number 57 comes to mind, but I will double check and write to the noble Baroness about the exact breakdown of the numbers that we checked.

Terrorist Attack: New Zealand

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 18th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I absolutely confirm to the noble Lord that the White Paper and its consequent legislation will tackle this. I have had numerous contacts with CSPs; on each occasion, I have made this point most strongly. They have heard submissions from the honourable Member Luciana Berger about some of the disgusting content about her that has been put online. I have only to look at Twitter to see some of the absolutely appalling comments that people make, particularly about Members of either your Lordships’ House or of the other place. To put such a video online is the final straw, so I totally agree with my right honourable friend the Home Secretary, and the sooner this legislation comes, the better.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, I also associate myself with the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy. The absolutely shocking events in Christchurch last Friday sent shockwaves right around the world, particularly in this country—Muslims here were fearful of going to a mosque on Friday as well. It is clear now that Muslims need more than thoughts and prayers because many fear that this can and will very likely happen in the UK.

I am glad the Minister highlighted social media responsibilities. The media and some politicians have created a climate in which far-right ideology and commentary can flourish—by giving platforms to right-wing hate preachers and to journalists who write racist opinion pieces, and to those who support Islamophobia on TV. Words have consequences—these events did not happen in a vacuum—and these are no longer fringe ideologies but ideologies tolerated and dressed up as freedom of speech. Will the online harms White Paper that the Minister mentioned include looking at mainstream media? The comments on online mainstream media pieces, such as those on Mail Online, are equally disgraceful and as disgusting as those on social media. That needs to be seriously looked at.

The Minister mentioned the Prevent programme, but it has, until recently, failed to challenge or change the attitudes of those on the far right. We urgently need an anti-extremism strategy that addresses the subversive far-right activity that has been allowed to flourish. Will the Government use their powers to take direct action to tackle these far-right extremists, and will the review of the Prevent programme investigate how the far right has been mainstreamed? As I mentioned, it has been given regular platforms, especially on channels such as the BBC. Last Friday on “Newsnight”, disgracefully, a hate organisation called Generation Identity was invited to comment on the murders. What will be done about this?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank the noble Baroness for her comments. To start with her last point, I understood that some of Generation Identity’s members were supposed to be speaking at an event last year in this country and that the organisers cancelled the event so that Generation Identity could not have a platform to spread its hate. None the less, the mainstream media invited a comment from it.

The White Paper is entirely the platform from which to discuss—effectively, it is a pre-consultation on the legislation—whether mainstream media should be included. Mainstream media should also get its religious literacy right. The noble Lord, Lord Singh, who is not in his place, always talks about it: people are very sloppy with language. We all have a responsibility to be careful about that. The noble Baroness talked about people saying things in the name of freedom of speech, but with freedom of speech comes the responsibility to not let hate take hold. I have often heard freedom of speech used as an excuse to mete out hate and division towards other people—wherever they might be, but particularly in communities where they seem to have a grip.

She also talked about Muslims living in fear—and Muslims are in fear. In Manchester on Friday, I felt a terrible sense of unease. However, there was a lovely vigil on Friday evening, where people of all faiths came together—it was really touching. While people were out celebrating St Patrick’s Day in one bit of Manchester, in another part, just nearby, everyone of any faith and none was coming together to think and pray for our friends in New Zealand.

The noble Baroness also talked about Prevent, which is as much about the far right as it is about Islamist extremism. In fact, we are absolutely cognisant of the referrals to Channel on that issue over the past couple of years having increased significantly, going from 30% to nearly 50% of all referrals. We cannot talk about Prevent without talking about the far right.

Equality Act 2010: Commencement of Section 106

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 7th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I most certainly agree with the noble Baroness that we need to improve the diversity of candidates so that both Houses of Parliament look like the people they represent. She talked about data, which is really important. I call on all political parties to improve, collate and report their data, not only so they can look to it themselves, but so that candidates who might wish to join and represent a political party can also look to it.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, women, disabled people and ethnic minorities are woefully underrepresented in our Parliament and public institutions, but there is a new phenomenon: the disproportionate level of abuse that a lot of women and disabled people in particular put up with on social media. The Prime Minister was recently quoted as saying that it has become so severe that it is “threatening our democracy”. Can the Minister say what action is being taken to combat this?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I agree with the noble Baroness and, indeed, with my right honourable friend the Prime Minister. The abuse of some female representatives—I can think of a few, such as Luciana Berger—is so severe and has been so bad for them that I am surprised some of them are still in Parliament. It is absolutely up to the leadership of political parties not just to recognise the abuse, but to deal with it promptly. That is the only way we will drive out some of the abuse we are seeing.

Gender Equality and Rights in the Workplace

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 6th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank my noble friend as the epitome of a female entrepreneur in this House and commend her on her recent app, Connect 2 Michelle Mone, which provides mentoring to would-be female entrepreneurs. Of the start-up loans that the Government have provided, 39% have gone to women and, through our industrial strategy, we are focusing on barriers to women in business.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that the majority of carers in the UK—an estimated 58%—are women, and many struggle to find and hold on to good jobs. A reported 76% felt that they were forced to make changes to their job or quit. A recent survey by the Disability Law Service discovered that, of those carers who have applied for flexible working, a shocking 52% have had their request refused. A simple amendment to the Equality Act 2010 could resolve this by giving carers the same rights to reasonable adjustments as are currently given to disabled people. This would send a powerful message to both carers and the business community that a carer is to be accommodated in a similar way.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece]

Perhaps I might finish. Will the Government consider this?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am sorry, my Lords; the noble Baroness seemed to stop mid-sentence. The first point that she made—on low-skilled, low-paid women—is very important. Those women tend to be stuck in that low-skill/low pay situation both at the beginning of their potential career and at the end. Graphs very clearly show that pattern. We have a ring-fenced returners fund for marginalised women, and we are actively encouraging women and girls to take up STEM subjects so that they can get involved in things such as engineering. In addition, the economic empowerment strategy that I talked about will very much focus on women throughout their career journey and on how to get them out of that low-skill/low-pay rut.

Deportation: Jamaica

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 6th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, there was a very good example of petty party points in the other place yesterday. It is not that the Home Secretary does not agree with the law; the Home Secretary is abiding by the law.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, within the last few days I met a man who has lived in the UK for 41 years, since the age of four. He was due to be deported to Jamaica, but then his deportation was cancelled, which is obviously good news. Does the Minister think this is a just way for this country to conduct its deportation policies? How many more people are in the pipeline to be deported day after day, and which we are only hearing about in the newspapers? Somehow the Government are in denial that they have any responsibility to take care of these people.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the noble Baroness will understand that I will not comment on an individual case. She is absolutely right that deportations go on all the time. Although this flight has come to the fore in the media this week, it is nothing unusual. I cannot comment on whether this deportation has been cancelled or not.

Youth Crime: London

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 22nd October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hussein-Ece]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to reduce youth crime in London.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the Serious Violence Strategy sets out our response to tackling serious violence, including recent increases in knife crime, gun crime and homicide. The strategy emphasises early intervention and prevention to stop young people getting involved in violence in the first place. On 2 October, the Home Secretary announced further measures, including a £200 million youth endowment fund that will support children and young people to prevent their involvement in violence and crime.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that response. The alarming rise in knife crime and the number of deaths by stabbing of young people in London prompted me to put this Question down, on behalf of those of us who have boys and are terrified about whether they will come home in one piece. The streets are not safe any more for young people. According to figures, knife crime has gone up by 15% in the past year in London, with 91 killings. That means an average of 40 knife crimes per day. Will sufficient police resources be put in place to tackle this, as well as a public health approach, which the Youth Violence Commission has recommended and which worked so well in Glasgow? It was the knife crime capital of western Europe but has seen a decline following a public health approach. Will the Government put proper resources in place to tackle this?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I mentioned in my Answer to the noble Baroness’s original Question the £200 million youth endowment fund. In addition, and given that the noble Baroness is talking about London—this does, in many ways, seem to be a particular problem for London—in July, the Home Secretary doubled the early intervention youth fund to £22 million. Through the trusted relationships fund, we are supporting nine projects that will support children vulnerable to county lines criminal exploitation. Four of these are based in London and will receive a total of £4.8 million. Further, £175,000 has been provided to support Redthread to expand work in London hospitals that will help victims of violent crime avoid or withdraw from gang activity, and £150,000 to support Safer London in its work to deliver young people’s advocates for young women in gangs and to reduce knife crime.

Asylum Applications

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 15th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness outlines precisely why training in religious literacy and indeed about those who have no beliefs or are humanists, which is a belief in and of itself, is required in order to make proper decisions.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware of the report Still Falling Short, which was produced recently by the UK Lesbian and Gay Immigration group highlighting that LGBT+ asylum seekers were routinely disbelieved by Home Office decision-makers, and were falling short of the legal standard required in asylum applications. For example, one applicant was told that LGBT+ people cannot possibly follow a religion and that their application was rejected. What is being done to address this failure?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I think I outlined the process to my noble friend, but the noble Baroness is right to point out that you can be LGBT and have a religion. The care with which asylum case decision-makers make their judgments is very important, as are the sensitivities around interviewing LGBT people and those who are persecuted for their faith.

Visas: Forced Marriages

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 5th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My noble friend makes a very good point on same-sex relationships, particularly when the applicants come from certain countries. On her first point about reluctant sponsors, I think that some applicants are reluctant because they have been put in such a vulnerable position. Therefore, other reasons for the visa refusal will be given if they are available and “reluctant sponsor” will be given as a last resort. She has raised a really pertinent question on same-sex partnerships and I will raise it with my right honourable friend the Home Secretary.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, we have heard about evidence of the Home Office failing to protect victims who say they are at risk of forced marriage, for fear of being accused of racism, as in some of the examples we have been hearing about. But at the same time the Home Office was very happy to deport the Windrush generation, who were legally here, singling them out in a racist way. It has devastated people’s lives on either side of the argument. I ask the Minister: when is the Home Office going to get a grip and ensure that it implements the proper lawful procedures to protect individuals?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I hope that in my Answer to the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, I clarified the position on what appeared in the newspaper. In fact, it was the other way round: in the majority of cases it was proactive referral by UKVI to the Forced Marriage Unit, which looked at them as part of its safeguarding work, as opposed to visas being granted where there was a reluctant sponsor. To conflate the issue with Windrush is quite wrong because we are talking about two entirely different things. We discussed Windrush yesterday. Successive Governments have been to blame—if blame is the right word—for what went wrong with the Windrush generation. As the Home Secretary has repeatedly said, he wants to work with other parties to put right the wrongs that happened over decades.

Refugees (Family Reunion) Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 11th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

I have been listening carefully. Is the Minister aware that Germany has admitted 1 million Syrian refugees and has just passed legislation very similar to that put before us today by my noble friend Lady Hamwee? Crime there has gone down, unemployment has gone right down and its economy is booming. How does the Minister respond to that?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I recognise totally what the noble Baroness says and what Germany has done. It has caused problems in Germany, and what the Government of the time decided to do has caused integration challenges. But I recognise exactly what the noble Baroness says. I have not mentioned crime or unemployment today; I was simply talking about infrastructure such as public services. I was not going there and I would not want to. I know that the noble Baroness is a very compassionate person indeed.

I have lost my place. I was talking about the extended family reunion rights for British citizens. I will now move on to another point, which I have also lost. I am very glad that the noble Lord is about to intervene.

Gender Equality: Pay

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 21st March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, certainly Norway has done this. The unintended consequence of doing so was that it was seen as a snooper’s charter, a way for people to snoop into the information of people that they did not like. I think publishing the gender pay gap will give employees a greater sense of the company that they are going to work for and whether there is gender equality across pay, as opposed to a huge database that cannot have the granular detail that the gender pay gap reporting will have but can perhaps be used with other intent from how it was designed.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, transparency is of course very important, and the reporting of gender pay gaps by organisations and companies is going to be valuable. However, what comes after that? Once we know the disparity between pay in these organisations, when can we expect the gender pay gap to be closed, and when can women expect to reach pay parity with men once we know what the problem is?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness asks an interesting question about what comes next. What will come next is that this will shine a light on which companies take their gender pay obligations seriously and which simply do not. If I were a graduate going to a company with a huge gender pay gap, I would start to think about what that company would mean for me as a woman. I think it will draw into sharp focus those companies that take their obligations seriously and shame those companies and public sector organisations that do not.

Domestic Violence: Women

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 8th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank the noble Lord for that question; he has extensive experience of this area. We have allocated additional funding to the College of Policing to improve training for some of those first-line responders, who in the past may not have been aware of children’s needs, Children who suffer even one incident in which they witness domestic abuse can sometimes be affected for their entire lives.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, in welcoming the Government’s latest initiative on controlling and coercive behaviour, I would highlight the study by the charity Refuge, which found that one in four 16 to 21 year-olds—young people—thought it perfectly normal that coercive and controlling behaviour took place. It is growing, and we know that it is a precursor to physical violence in the end. Will the Minister say a bit more about what is being done to educate young people, and indeed the public—women in general—that coercive, controlling and psychological abuse is not acceptable and that they can seek help?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for raising that point. Coercive and controlling behaviour may not even be seen as that by the victim—I think that is the point the noble Baroness is making. We can do much through PSHE and educating girls in self-respect. Education in the use of social media and the internet is crucial in this area. The statistics cited by the noble Baroness do not surprise me, and we have much to do to educate our young women.

Women: Economic Freedom

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 6th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I think that the noble Baroness has asked a very similar question to the noble Baroness, Lady Burt. As I said to her, we are doing a number of things to help women back into work after a break in their career. Supporting men and women with caring responsibilities takes the burden of responsibility off the woman. Shared parental leave is very important, along with working with businesses to support and increase women’s progression to senior positions. In addition, a large number of organisations now allow for flexible working when a woman returns to work.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, it is a pity that my noble friend was drowned out, because her question was very important—so important that it was repeated, of course. Does the department keep information and statistics on the number of women who, when they become pregnant, lose their jobs or are sacked? Is that being monitored, and what is being done to mitigate it?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am not sure that we keep those specific statistics, but what I can say to the noble Baroness, which I am sure she will know, is that if a woman who gets pregnant is then sacked she most definitely has a claim under the Equality Act.

Women: Events Industry

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 30th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hussein-Ece]

To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to protect women who work in the events industry, following reports of harassment at the recent Presidents Club Charity Dinner.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, we condemn all forms of workplace harassment, which is unlawful under the Equality Act 2010. The Government are looking at all aspects of the wholly unacceptable behaviour which is alleged to have happened at the Presidents Club dinner. The Prime Minister has committed to reviewing non-disclosure agreements and any evidence that comes forward. The EHRC has sent a pre-enforcement letter to the Artista agency raising concerns about its actions, and the Charity Commission is considering whether further regulatory action is needed for charitable trusts.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

I thank the Minister for her reply. Many reports on this incident have claimed that the women employed at the recent Presidents Club charity dinner knew what they were letting themselves in for, yet of the 360 male guests, none saw what was going on and apparently they all left early. This has exposed the fact that these women, some as young as 18, were required to sign their rights away under gagging clauses, and were not allowed to talk about or report any sexual harassment or discrimination. How will women be protected from these crimes that may be committed against them, and how can they be made aware of their rights?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, it is important to understand that non-disclosure agreements, which I think the noble Baroness is referring to and which are sometimes called confidentiality agreements, may legitimately form part of a contract of employment. But these would be legitimate to protect trade secrets, for example. They cannot preclude an individual from asserting statutory rights, either under the Employment Rights Act or the Equality Act 2010.

Women: Political and Public Office

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 16th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My noble friend has asked a pertinent question because certainly in my home city of Manchester there will be a statue of Emmeline Pankhurst, and here in Parliament a statue to celebrate Millicent Fawcett. In addition there are all sorts of initiatives and projects going on.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, 100 years on, 32% of MPs and 33% of councillors are women. If we compare ourselves with comparable OECD countries, such as Sweden, Denmark, Iceland and others, we see that they do far better, but it is no coincidence that they also have cheaper, more affordable and more accessible childcare. The noble Baroness mentioned barriers that will be looked at. Will she say what is being done to address those barriers, to make sure that women will not be prohibited from engaging in public life because they simply cannot afford childcare?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

A few years ago, parliamentary hours were made more sociable—not that we can always say that they are terribly sociable—but I agree with the noble Baroness about childcare. We have a nursery here in Parliament, but childcare generally will be looked at to encourage women to come forward and participate in public life.

Stalking

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 27th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, nothing has changed. There is every opportunity for the noble Baroness to put that forward through the consultation. At that point—I am sure she would agree—I was loath to have a fragmented system of registration. Let us continue to discuss it because we both want the same thing.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, women who have been stalked and have been victims of domestic violence keep having to move. I had a case recently of a woman who moved five times to get away from her abuser. Several times information about where she had moved to was not passed on to the relevant constabulary and she was left vulnerable to her stalker. What safeguards are in place to ensure this does not happen?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Going back to the national statement of expectations, we need a joined-up approach for local authorities and across police forces so women are not found by their stalkers or abusers. In fact, women should not have to flee at all and the perpetrators should be brought to justice.

Terrorism: Perpetrator Creed

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 25th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I do not know which part of that question I should disagree with first. It is not the case that all terrorists are Islamists; we have had some examples recently of far-right terrorism. And to describe someone as Asian would be entirely inaccurate: just because you are a Muslim, that does not mean you are Asian.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, according to more in-depth research than we just heard about, psychiatrists and others who have interviewed so-called jihadists in prison cells and on battlefields all agree that faith, Islamic or otherwise, is not the key driver for what these people have done. Does the noble Baroness agree with those who know something about this: that terrorists want to legitimise their criminality and violence and that it is quite wrong that the rest of society should help or validate them? These are not people of any faith.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

As ever, the noble Baroness makes sensible points in this regard. Faith is certainly not the key driver or the initial driver. As she says, it can be a hook on which to justify the actions of a very few people.