Government of Wales Act 2006 (Amendment) Order 2015

Baroness Humphreys Excerpts

Tuesday 13th January 2015 Grand Committee

[Lord Rowlands (Lab)]

I rise briefly to support this order. I followed the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, with some interest. As I understand it—I hope the Minister will confirm this, and I think she did so in her opening speech—the order confers further legislative power on the Assembly to promote the Bill that is before it. If it is that, I fully support it. It is part and parcel of the staged process of the evolution of legislative competence contained in the 2006 Act. I know that there are many critics of that process, but it has served the Assembly and the Welsh Government well over the years, prior to the referendum and the Assembly’s full legislative competence. Will the Minister confirm that this is a process of conferring further legislative power on the Assembly to fulfil its wishes to introduce this Bill and carry it through?

If it is, we should hope it is the last such order, because there is unanimity across all parties that for legislation we should move from a conferred powers model to a reserved powers model. That was what the Minister assured us when she was taking the last Bill through the House. The process she described is now in full swing, and I hope that in the near future the proposed reserved powers arrangements will see the light of day. If, as I suspect, this will be the last such order, we should recognise that. I think I am in a minority, but I believe the process that was created to introduce legislative competence was sensible. It was part of a sensible staged process to transfer legislative power, but it is now redundant. I hope that this is the last order of this kind and that we will go over to a reserved powers model.

The title of the Bill that is the driving force behind this order is the most ambitious and courageous title I have ever seen. Over many years, I have heard Ministers making the case that their Bills will improve people’s well-being, but I have never seen the words “well-being” in the title of a Bill. The Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Bill is an amazingly ambitious and courageous title. I sincerely hope that the performance that flows from the Bill will match it.

I realise that it is not within our competence to discuss the Bill, but considering that we are enabling it to go ahead and are supporting it, I hope it is within the bounds to ask the Minister to give us some idea about the costs that the Bill might incur. The Bill will place a duty on local authorities and a series of public bodies to promote and develop sustainability. At this stage, particularly in local government, there are horrendous problems of finance. I hope that the Bill will not create costs for local government that it cannot sustain.

The Bill that will eventually come forward is about the public sector. As I understand it, the private sector and the third sector will be covered by something called a sustainable development charter. I have not had sight of this charter. If the Minister is in a position to clarify what the charter might be, it would be helpful as a piece of background to an order which I and, I am sure, everybody else will support.

[Baroness Humphreys (LD)]

I, too, welcome the amendment order. I also welcome the work being carried out by the Welsh Government in their Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Bill. The order will help the Welsh Government to pass one of what they consider to be the few laws of its kind in the world. It is a Bill which will put sustainable development at the heart of public service governance in Wales. I also recognise that the Welsh Government see it as their commitment to pass on a better quality of life to their and my children and grandchildren.

The Welsh Government have recognised the systemic weaknesses in the present governance structures for sustainable development in Wales. The Bill will, or should, ensure that they set objectives that match the goals set out in it. The Bill allows the Welsh Government to address further the complexity and unintended consequences that arose from partnership working: overlap and duplication, resulting in increased costs in the planning process. Efforts had already been made in Wales to address this problem—but, even as recently as March 2014, Denbighshire Local Service Board identified 84 partners in the county that it was supposed to work with, and that was not a comprehensive list.

I also welcome the new well-being goals listed in the Bill and the common sense of purpose that they set out for public bodies in Wales. These goals and their descriptors should ensure that such bodies share responsibility for achieving the long-term, economic, social and environmental well-being of Wales.

Although I welcome the Bill now going through the Assembly, it smacks slightly of motherhood and apple pie—or perhaps I should refer to it as “ambitious”, as the noble Lord, Lord Rowlands, did. Perhaps I may ask the Minister a couple of questions, echoing the first question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Wigley. At exactly what stage is the Bill in the Assembly and to what extent has it been scrutinised there?

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, I shall be very brief and build on what my noble friend Lord Rowlands said; that is, I hope that this is the last measure of its kind—I will ask a question or two later as to progress in other legislative fields. I also echo the noble Baroness in saying that the Bill may be aspirational in that duties may be being laid on local authorities without the resources to accompany them.

When I saw on the Order Paper the rather grand title,

“Constitutional Law. Devolution, Wales. The Government of Wales Act 2006 (Amendment) Order 2015”,

I eagerly rushed to find out more about it, and I hope that I am not being too critical when I say that it should perhaps have been the “Much Ado About Nothing” Order, since no one can possibly be against it and query whether the relevant resources will be given. I wish that the Assembly could have acted within the spirit of what has now been agreed, because the 2006 Act seems to have been in a very different context and a very long time ago. Now the context is very different: one of reserved powers rather than the conferring of specific powers. This, of course, therefore makes it a rather convoluted process.

We have in the Chamber looked at some of these questions at some length during proceedings on the last Wales Act, which we have just passed. I assume that that legislation does not affect this order in any way. However, during the passage of what became the Act we talked about the need for a presumption in favour of the passage of competences to the Assembly, rather than to enumerate them here. I think I recall the Minister mentioning St David’s Day and saying that there would be another Bill, for which obviously there will be no time before the election. Perhaps she can indicate whether that new Bill will make this sort of order totally unnecessary in future, and comment on what stage has been reached in consultations on the proposed Bill, which presumably will now take a year or two because I cannot imagine anyone seriously being against it in spirit.