House of Lords: Working Practices

Baroness Hamwee Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hamwee]

My Lords, there was a remarkable degree of consensus in what was a very enjoyable series of meetings, and when there was not consensus, our Chairman tended to move us on with the comment, “Let’s see what it looks like on paper”. That is a line that I shall use myself on future occasions. I, too, thank the noble Lord, Lord Goodlad, and the clerks who supported us so well and effectively.

As has been said, we covered a lot of ground, with underlying principles which boiled down to intelligibility and openness to the citizens whom we serve, and making the best use of what the House has available to it. That includes the experience, expertise and knowledge of our Members and the officials who advise us. We should use those to the maximum—not in a “random” way, to use the term used by the noble Baroness.

We criticise the Government—every Government—for not joining up, but so should we as a House take a joined-up approach. Cross-cutting committees are well overdue; we have some but we need more. Cross-cutting issues are the most difficult, so they are the most important to tackle. It takes two to tango, but the more we can work in conjunction with the House of Commons the better. We might think, too, about developing links with other spheres of Government. The Centre for Public Scrutiny—I am on its advisory board, I should say—put in evidence suggesting this.

We all say there is too much legislation, it is not good enough, and there is frustration all round. It must be very frustrating for those who are not Members of either House—stakeholders, if you like, and normal people—who have little opportunity for dialogue. We owe so much to the NGOs, individuals and all the organisations who contribute. Lobbying has a bad name, but what they do is more than poor lobbying and it is often very informative.

Public Bill Committees in the House of Commons have arrangements for taking evidence. From my reading of Hansard, I have often wondered whether anyone comes away from those completely satisfied, either Members or witnesses, because so much is crammed into such short sessions. I hope that in this House, we look at building upon the Commons experience in considering Bills which start here. The evidence from the Hansard Society talked about building on that experience and mentioned, for example, the role of the Chair, how witnesses are selected and how questions are chosen. All of this could be developed.

I join those who support the move to pre-legislative scrutiny, because it seems to me that at that stage positions are not as polarised, as inevitably they must be once the Bill has gone beyond the draft stage and is introduced to either House. By that time, defences are often up, over both substance and style. Of course, drafting is more than style, and a legislative standards committee might even—who knows?—advise whether legislation is necessary, which is something that post-legislative scrutiny might also reveal. I also support systematic arrangements for this.

Legislation is sometimes an occasion for grandstanding, but I think that we need to be very workman-like about it. The noble Lord the Leader of the House referred to the time taken. I think that the Grand Committee has a great part to play in this. The physical arrangements are actually very helpful for the work one has to do in Committee—there is a lot of paper—where one needs the modern physical arrangements. A lot of money has been invested in the Moses Room and on rooms in the Committee Corridor. Some years ago I took part in a Committee stage upstairs, and I think we should use the facilities better, including having more than one Bill in Grand Committee on one day.

One small recommendation is supported by my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones, who has e-mailed me to say he cannot be here but he thinks the report is superb—I will pass his e-mail on to the Leader. His recommendation is that a response that cannot be given at the time from the Dispatch Box should be printed in Hansard so that it is on the record, available and accessible.

The debates that we have in this House have a number of functions, and I support very much the proposal for a Back-Bench business committee to bring greater transparency and accountability. I welcome recommendations about making the work of the usual channels more accessible to the House as a whole, including the role of the Convenor of the Cross-Bench Peers and the chair of the Back-Bench committee, should we have one.

We can be less arcane in our working methods and our language. We can operate in a way in which the world outside operates in the 21st century without losing what is good and works well among what has accumulated and developed over so many years. I hope all of the recommendations will find their way into the way in which we work.