Brexit: European Parliament Resolution
Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Wigley
Baroness Goldie
I thank the noble Baroness for raising two important points. On the question of inter-Parliament relationships—between the Parliament of the United Kingdom and the European Parliament—the negotiating conduit is clearly from the UK Government to the European Commission. But it seems a perfectly healthy suggestion that the Parliaments should engage; and indeed that is for the Parliaments themselves to determine, as government does not control Parliament and nor should it do so. On the second important issue, it was helpful that the European Parliament recognised the importance of the citizenship issue. The Prime Minister has made it clear that in so far as citizenships are concerned, from the UK perspective we want to have that at the forefront of our negotiations. In relation to the European Parliament resolution, we certainly look forward to an early resolution of the issue of citizenships and citizenship rights.
Lord Wigley (PC)
My Lords, speaking as one who sat through the entire three hours of the debate in Strasbourg yesterday, will the noble Baroness accept from me that the pervading feeling there was one of sadness? Is she aware that Michel Barnier suggested that the three conditions for successful negotiations were: first, unity, by which he meant success for both sides; secondly, to dispel uncertainty; and thirdly, the establishing of appropriate sequencing of the negotiations? Will the Government endorse that approach?
Baroness Goldie
I thank the noble Lord for his question. What was reflected in the European Parliament yesterday echoes much of what the United Kingdom Government have been saying. Quite simply, there is a mutual interest for the UK and the EU in conducting these negotiations in a harmonious, constructive and, yes, robust fashion. That means that there will be issues where firm positions have to be taken, but I very much hope that a mood of constructive concord will prevail. In so far as the particular points made by Mr Barnier are concerned, I am sure that all these matters are already in the mind of the UK Government and that they will pay close attention to those issues.
Brexit: Court of Justice of the European Union
Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Wigley
Baroness Goldie
I thank my noble friend for a predictably helpful and constructive intervention. I suspect that the answer to all his questions is yes.
Lord Wigley (PC)
Is it not true, however, that if there are changes following rulings of the European Court of Justice, the UK will have the choice of either following those, albeit through our own mechanisms here at Westminster, or ignoring them, in which case there will be an economic price to pay?
Baroness Goldie
I thank the noble Lord for his substantive question, which goes to the heart of an important technical point. For as long as EU-derived law remains on the UK statute book, it will be essential that there is a common understanding of what that law means. I can reassure the noble Lord that, to maximise certainty, the great repeal Bill will provide that any question as to the meaning of EU-derived law will be determined in the UK courts by reference to the CJEU’s case law as it exists on the day we leave the EU.
Prisoners: Indeterminate Terms
Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Wigley
Baroness Goldie
I thank the noble Lord for acknowledging the genesis of the problem. No one is disputing that the sentencing system introduced back in 2003 was defective. It is a matter for commendation that that system has now been abolished. However, that does not help us in discussing how best to advance the position of the prisoners within that cohort now affected by that former sentencing system. The noble Lord asked what we are doing: I gently point out to him that the figures are encouraging. He will be aware that the number of releases is increasing and, thankfully, the population within this cohort is diminishing. Those are exactly the trajectories we want to see. He will also be aware that the Government, in conjunction with the Parole Board and the National Offender Management Service, have an action plan that has greatly assisted in mitigating the problem. I remind the noble Lord, however, that we should not lose sight of the context in which people are placed in prison. These prisoners were put there at the decree of the original sentencing court by a judge familiar with the circumstances of the case and of the accused. It is very important that we do not forget the obligation of public safety and that we are clear that any releases must be consistent with a robust risk assessment.
Lord Wigley (PC)
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the report shows that more than 80% of IPP prisoners were beyond their tariff expiry date, and that three-quarters of these were category C and D prisoners, some of whom were held in local prisons where offending courses are just not available? Will the Government accept the report’s leading recommendation that IPP prisoners should be held in prisons appropriate to their security classification, with facility to support risk reduction and rehabilitation?
Baroness Goldie
I am not unsympathetic to the general point advanced by the noble Lord. As I said to the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, improvements are under way. I do not dispute for one moment that there have been delays in the system—everyone acknowledges that—but it is also important to acknowledge the positive steps taken by the Government, the independent Parole Board and the National Offender Management Service. Indications are that improvements are being effected. For example, with effect from today we have revised the statutory Parole Board Rules so that parole panels can release IPP prisoners without progressing to an oral hearing. That is one of a number of measures intended to ensure that prisoners who apply for parole get a proper opportunity for a hearing and a proper assessment of their circumstances. As I said earlier, the overriding consideration must be risk assessment and what is safe for the public.