Leaving the European Union

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Tugendhat

Wednesday 22nd May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I do not accept that. I gently remind the noble Lord that the 2016 referendum was the biggest democratic exercise in our history, where the British people voted to leave the EU.

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the reason that we have not yet left the European Union is not because of machinations by Brussels, as the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, suggested, nor as a result of machinations in the House of Commons by people who voted to remain, but because a significant section of the Conservative Party refused to back its leader?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

It is certainly true that we have not been able to get a majority in the House of Commons to support the deal; otherwise, we would be having a different conversation, which would be a very nice one to have. But we are where we are. We now have a new offer, which we hope will appeal to MPs across the House of Commons, so that we can get the Bill through and start to focus on our future relationship with the European Union.

European Council

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Tugendhat

Monday 25th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The Council formally endorsed the legal instrument relating to the withdrawal agreement. Three new legally binding commitments were agreed, but the Council reiterated—it is in its conclusions—that there could be no reopening of the withdrawal agreement.

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept that while many of us who voted to remain have accepted that we must accept the result of the referendum and work towards an orderly exit from the European Union, the Government have now had three years in which to do that, but have not shown themselves capable of resolving this issue? Does that not mean—as raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Armstrong, and others—that we should now also think about whether the mandate that the referendum and the election represented is wearing rather thin, and that the time is coming to consider whether the million people who marched and the four million who signed the petition have a point?

[Noble Lords]

Five million.

Brexit: Negotiations

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Tugendhat

Monday 15th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As was laid out in the Statement, we put forward our proposal for a UK-wide customs backstop to deal with these issues. That is what we will continue to work towards. The EU proposal is unacceptable. We believe we are not so far apart that we cannot come together but, as the Statement sets out, there are issues between us that we need to continue to work through, and that is what we will do. We will not renege on our commitment to the Good Friday agreement or our promises to the people of Northern Ireland.

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, I am encouraged by the Prime Minister’s Statement, and very much agree with the line she has put forward. But does the Leader of the House understand there is great concern, not so much about the position the Prime Minister is taking up, but about whether the Cabinet is capable of agreeing on the position the Prime Minister brings back from Brussels? This is the nub of the concern: it is not what the Prime Minister’s position is, but whether her colleagues are capable of agreeing. At a time when the Leader of the House and the Prime Minister are calling for support for her negotiating position, it really is intolerable that Cabinet Ministers and ex-Cabinet Ministers should be briefing the press in a manner more disloyal than any I can remember.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I can assure the noble Lord that the Prime Minister is leading the negotiations, the Cabinet is behind her and we will continue to support her.

Exiting the EU

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Tugendhat

Monday 9th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Lord is absolutely right that we currently enjoy a high level of co-operation with EU member states. There is a challenge in finding a way through and our ability is currently being put at risk because, as he rightly says, the existing legal frameworks for third countries do not allow us to realise the ambitious future security partnership we are seeking. We are making these points with the EU. We are working very constructively with our EU partners. For instance, since the Salisbury incident we have led work with them to propose a package of measures to step up our communications against online disinformation, strengthen our capabilities against cybersecurity threats and further reduce the threat from hostile intelligence agencies. We have an excellent relationship in this area. The noble Lord is right that there are challenges, but we believe it is in both our interests to have a strong security partnership. We will continue to say that, and we believe that our EU partners agree. We will work through these current issues in order to make sure we achieve that end.

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, may I say first how glad I am to see the Leader of the House still in her place? I hope she will still be with us when we debate the White Paper. Secondly, does she agree that many of the questions that have been put to her today are quite impossible to answer until we have the details in the White Paper, that what is clear is that the Government have put together a basic plan which will enable us to negotiate with the other members of the EU to act as the basis for a final agreement and that what differs between this proposal and those who attack it so frequently is that the Government have a plan and those who dispute it have put forward no plan of their own?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend for his comments. He is absolutely right: we will be bringing forward more detail on Thursday in the White Paper. I thoroughly commend it to all noble Lords to read, and we look forward to the debate shortly to talk about it further.

Salisbury Incident Update

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Tugendhat

Monday 12th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I assure the noble Lord that we will be raising this matter with our allies in a number of forums, including the UN. There can be no return to business as usual with Russia, and this incident proves that our actions over the last decade have been justified. We have taken the lead against Russia’s foreign aggression and abuse of the international rules-based system.

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the thoroughness with which the Government have reacted to this terrible incident and the fact that they have not jumped to conclusions prematurely or made statements on the basis of inadequate evidence. Now that the facts are becoming clearer, the robustness of the Prime Minister’s response is wholly adequate to the situation. Looking ahead, however, in the light of what has been said about this being an attack on the United Kingdom, as it certainly is, it will be very important to ensure that we have sufficient allied support—support from our European allies and from the US. It is going to be a great test of the Government’s diplomacy to ensure that we present a united front to Russia at this critical time.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend, and I entirely agree. Indeed, the action that we have taken on sanctions, for instance, has presented a clear united western position to Russia. We will be discussing this with our allies and working out what action needs to be taken, both in the UK and internationally.

Brexit Negotiations

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Tugendhat

Monday 11th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid I would struggle to do that.

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that it is not helpful to keep talking about a Norwegian, Swiss or Canadian model in the way that people are, since we are much bigger than Norway, we have many much closer links with the EU than Switzerland and we are much closer than Canada? One of the most important two things that she said in answer to a number of questions was that we are looking for a bespoke deal that reflects the particular circumstances of the United Kingdom and its relationship with the other members of the EU. The second was that we are not starting from scratch. We are starting with a common edifice, and the question will be how much of the edifice we maintain and how much is taken away. That is a very central point, which a number of people have failed to grasp.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My noble friend is absolutely right. We are indeed in an unprecedented position of starting with the same rules and regulations in our discussions and will of course maintain our unequivocal commitment to free trade and high standards.

Brexit: UK Plans

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Tugendhat

Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid that I hold a different view from many noble Lords in this House but, as I have said, we are confident of getting a good deal. But, yes, as I just said, we are planning for an eventuality where that does not happen, because that is what any responsible Government should and would do.

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend Lord Forsyth that the Prime Minister has been consistent in her approach and I commend it. But is she aware that there are a large number of people in this country, and I count myself among them, who worry that perhaps the biggest obstacle to achieving a satisfactory outcome to these negotiations are the divisions that are being displayed on our own side? The more divided we appear, the greater the disadvantage we find ourselves at in Brussels. We are up against very experienced and tough negotiators and when they see that we are divided, they will take advantage of that. If the Prime Minister’s very sensible initiatives are to bear fruit, it is essential that she is able to enjoy the unity of purpose of her own Cabinet colleagues.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I agree with my noble friend. Indeed, the Cabinet is united behind the vision in the Florence speech. There is unity in the Cabinet. We are behind the Prime Minister because we all want to see these negotiations succeed.

Grenfell Tower

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Tugendhat

Thursday 22nd June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords—

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, besides the issues of the public inquiry, it will also be necessary to look at the structure of local government taxation. Those of us who live in the middle of London—I live in the City of Westminster, not in the royal borough—are acutely aware of the very low differential between the taxes paid by those of us who live in desirable properties in desirable areas and the amount paid by people who live in less desirable properties in less desirable areas. There really ought to be a bigger bandwidth between the two.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend for those comments. The point he makes comes somewhat outside what I can say today, but the Minister for the department is here and has, I am sure, listened with interest.