Trade Unions

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Monday 7th July 2014 Grand Committee

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde (Lab)]

My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, for introducing this debate and for the tone that he used. Like him, I joined a trade union before I joined the Labour Party. I am still a member of a trade union and always will be. I have been a member for more than 50 years. In fact, the union I was fortunate enough to join is more than 200 years old. Its originating members were deported to Australia for having the audacity to break the law to try to form a trade union. That is the DNA that ran through the union that I joined. The union has had a lot of changes.

I currently chair the employee share ownership scheme of NATS. It has been interesting to see how that has worked well within the company. At the time of the part-privatisation of the organisation in 2001, a shadow share price was established which I think was 20p. It was just before the bombing of the twin towers and the company was then trading almost illegally, with 126% gearing. Since then it has been interesting to see how we have substantially trade union-organised employees who are also shareholders in the company. It works well. The share price is now more than £4 a share; and those employees are benefiting from that. So, in the right structure and context, I support the employee share ownership schemes to which the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, referred. When we moved from free shares to part-free, part-buy shares, more than 80% of employees in the company bought shares. That is partnership working. The company has a policy of joint partnership working. That cannot be repeated enough because the company had its most successful financial year last year. Having been a totally nationalised company, it is now part government owned, part privately owned. It is held up worldwide as being an icon of professionalism and good quality. So the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, is absolutely right when he refers to the fact that trade unions are part of solving the economic issue, not part of the problem.

Every organisation and structure, I would dare say even the Conservative Party or any political party, has its own issues of one kind or another. I shall come back to those shortly. I referred to my original trade union links with the union of which I am still very proud to be a member, although it has been amalgamated almost out of existence: I am now a member of the same trade union as a number of noble Lords in this Room. When you look back at history—and the noble Lord, Lord Monks, rightly referred to the economic and social implications—you can see that trade unions are not just part of the economy but part of the overall quality of democracy within a nation. The noble Lord, Lord Balfe, referred to Germany, in which trade union structures were set up by the TUC after the Second World War. It is very much part of that engine of success, on the boards of companies and elsewhere, so it is not even an issue.

The issue over trade unionism in Britain is like the issue of class and the great divide that we have—there is no need for it, and has not been a need for it. What we need in the country is the partnership work—and if there is one word on which we are all united in this debate, it is “partnership”. Look at Tata and the success that it has made—it is trade union organised. Look at BAE Systems, which is fully trade unionised. Some months ago, I attended a meeting in the House of Commons where the company and trade unions were alongside each other, talking about how important was the success of that company, the investment that had taken place and the skills. There is a very highly skilled requirement in the company, as there is in Tata and a number of other companies, Bombardier included, to which my noble friend referred. People were then arguing for the well-being of the company. Why? When I was a trade union official, I never took any satisfaction out of dealing with a company that was not making a profit. Profit is a good word; it is how it is used that matters, and how we concentrate what we are doing in the UK to build on our economic recovery.

The question that I pose in this private debate about how we work together in Britain—because it will not receive publicity—is how trade unions, companies and government can make sure that we have economic success, taking the leaf out of great competitors, Germany, and the Scandinavian countries. I see that even in America, which is not known for its pro-trade union line, trade unions are growing in strength. In Britain, too, a number of trade unions are growing in numbers. It is still an anachronism for an individual employee to be faced with a professional employer and to have to deal with that employer on their own behalf. Collectivism is important, whether it is a small company or a large one. It would be much more profitable for the nation—I do not mean just in money terms but in our economy and social well-being—if we concentrated on that. It is therefore with some deep concern, which I am sure is shared by the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, that I saw the clear briefing this weekend, and the reporting in the press today, in the FT and the other newspapers, that the Conservative Party intends to have in its manifesto certain requirements on trade unions with regard to strikes and pre-strike ballots. I would welcome the Minister’s comments on that in his reply. The union that I came from never had a dispute without having a ballot—and that has to be the case. It is something that I have always agreed with; it was something which I was brought up with in my union.

It is reported that there will be a requirement for 50% of the employees covered to have voted. Just imagine how requiring that kind of level for elections would transpose itself to our democracy. That would be just unacceptable. It will be an adversarial debate. It has to be. Rather than the idea of almost going on to the front foot of aggression with the Government not wishing to negotiate and consult, partnership would serve our country better than having these kinds of briefings and leaks. This would be legislating for the small areas of industrial relations problems that still exist. I do not deny there are some. They might even be tiny and geographically placed for a number of reasons. Instead, concentrate on the nation as a whole. The nation as a whole has a darn good record in both this economic recovery, which my noble friend Lord Monks referred to, and the strike record. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, for this debate. It might give one or two of us the courage to come back to this issue in the months ahead because it is a debate which needs to be aired. We are indebted to the noble Lord. I ask the Minister, who I know is a coalition Minister, to address those questions and put on record where the Conservative Party stands.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Popat]

I will certainly do that and place a copy in the Library. The noble Lord, Lord Morris, raised the very important issue of blacklisting trade unionists. The Government are clear that blacklisting is an unacceptable and illegal practice. We take any allegation of this practice very seriously. Indeed, the Secretary of State has asked anyone who has information about this practice still going on to get in touch with the relevant authorities. The Employment Relations Act 1999 (Blacklists) Regulations 2010 make it unlawful.

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, asked whether the Government can work with the trade unions. Of course, we can work with the trade unions. The Government believe that trade unions have a key role to play in resolving workplace disputes. Representation in the workplace reduces voluntary exit by employees by about 5% to 10%, which helps business retain key skills. The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, also asked about the health and safety performance of the agricultural sector. I have covered health and safety, but I do not have agriculture on my brief and I will have to write to the noble Lord.

The noble Baroness, Lady Dean, mentioned workers’ participation, and having share ownership schemes. I believe there are many companies that have share ownership schemes. This is up to individual companies and employees to agree upon. My brief does not say what government policy is on this, but I would be happy to write to the noble Baroness.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

Will the Minister also kindly undertake to respond to my question about the plans which have been reported in the press on further trade union legislation? Would he kindly reply to me in writing if he does not have this information today?

[Lord Popat]

Certainly the noble Baroness is right. I read in the Times this morning about possible legislation. This is not the policy of the Government. It may the Conservative Party policy, but I do not know what its manifesto will be in 2015. I will certainly be writing to the noble Baroness.