Control of Donations and Regulation of Loans etc. (Extension of the Prescribed Period) (Northern Ireland) Order 2010

Debate between Baroness Crawley and Lord Trimble

Wednesday 21st July 2010 Grand Committee

[Baroness Crawley]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for setting out the order so clearly. This is my first opportunity to welcome the noble Lord, Lord Shutt of Greetland, to his new post. I wish him well in what I have always found an absorbing and fascinating brief on Northern Ireland matters. I make clear from the outset that we support the order, but I would like to put one or two questions to the Minister. I am of course happy for him to write to me on more detailed questions if he wishes to do so.

As I said, we support the order. This is a very important issue and it is vital that there is a proper period of consultation with the political parties and the wider community. The extension of the prescribed period enables that consultation to occur. I ask the Minister to confirm when the consultation period will start and when he anticipates being able to reach a conclusion about the way forward. Importantly, will he be meeting all the political parties during that period? Of course, we recognise that these are early days for the new ministerial team, but have the political parties in Northern Ireland expressed any views to Ministers about the best way to proceed?

We all want the system of political loans and donations to be as transparent as possible. At one time, there appeared to be an emerging consensus that the prescribed period should be allowed to lapse, to reflect the political progress that had been made in Northern Ireland over recent years. In view of the heightened threat level and increased attacks on the police, is that view changing? Perhaps the Minister would say a little more about current thinking about the threat level.

Specifically, what assessment have the Government made of the research into party and election finance carried out by the Electoral Commission and published last July? The majority of groups who took part in that survey acknowledged that the threat of intimidation remained an issue, but felt that Northern Ireland had moved on sufficiently to make the details of donors public without major repercussions. Does the Minister agree that, whatever the outcome of the consultation, there will be no justification for extending the prescribed period simply on the grounds that political donations should be regarded as a personal matter?

Can the Minister confirm whether, if the decision is taken to end the prescribed period, the reporting of loans and donations will start at the point when the period ends or at the point when the legislation originally came into operation? I am sure he will appreciate that it is important that this is made absolutely clear during the consultation as there may be a view that while confidentiality should end, those loans and donations already made in good faith and in confidence should remain protected.

As the Minister will know, loans and donations to political parties in Northern Ireland can be made by Irish citizens and a range of Irish registered organisations. Given that the confidentiality arrangements extend to them as well, how will the ending of the prescribed period affect their donations? What discussions have the Government had with Ministers in the Irish Government on this issue and what weight will the Government place on any representations that they might make? This has always been a sensitive aspect of the issue and it is important for noble Lords to understand the Minister’s approach to this specific element of the consultation.

Finally, these are complex issues and I am sure that the Minister appreciates how important it is that noble Lords have a clear understanding of how the Government are approaching this important consultation and the decisions that will flow from approval of the order today.

[Lord Trimble]

My Lords, I begin by welcoming the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, to the first occasion on which he is to take a statutory instrument through this Committee. We are delighted to see him engaged in matters regarding Northern Ireland, and I hasten to assure him that if anything I say during the next few minutes appears in any way critical of Ministers in Northern Ireland, it does not refer to him or, indeed, to the other present incumbents of the Northern Ireland Office.

I cannot resist the temptation to refer to paragraph 7.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum. The phrase that leaps out from that paragraph is the reference to,

“time to conduct a full consultation exercise”.

The word “exercise” is either redundant or a Freudian slip. It is quite different to say that a full consultation is to be conducted as opposed to a consultation exercise. The emphasis and meaning are quite different, and I hope that as a result of this, we will never see the word “exercise” again. I am satisfied in my own mind that the officials who wrote this meant “exercise” and not “consultation”. That observation may be more pointed than perhaps it should be, but it reflects my feelings on the matter.

I noted the references in my noble friend’s speech introducing the regulations to their genesis in the 2006 Act, and that evidently this issue was raised in the talks that took place at Hillsborough earlier this year. That underlines the highly political nature of this, not just because it refers to political parties but because it is a highly political matter. I know that the legislation simply provides another four months in which to conduct the consultation, but I feel entitled to make some comments on the underlying issue of the exemption from the publication of political donations.

This of course is advantageous to those parties which have something to hide about the nature of their finances, and there is a political party in Northern Ireland whose published finances have never been accurate or, in my view, truthful. Thus the regulations enable that party to continue to conceal some aspects of its finances. That reflects, if I may say so, what I am quite satisfied is the dominant attitude of the Northern Ireland Office—that all issues relating to Northern Ireland should proceed on the basis that the first concern is to keep Gerry happy. That has been the dominant influence on policymaking in the Northern Ireland Office for several years—more years than one would like to refer to. If that seems somewhat exaggerated, just remember this: there would not have been an agreement on Good Friday if the Northern Ireland Office had had any influence in the negotiations that week. It was its exclusion from the negotiations that generated the possibility of there being an agreement. We who took part in that will never forget the great contribution made by the then Prime Minister in coming over and excluding the Northern Ireland Office from the discussions and conducting them himself.

Regrettably, in subsequent months and years the Northern Ireland Office regained its influence over policymaking, and the bad advice and bad influences which flowed from that. At the beginning of this century, the settled attitude of the Northern Ireland Office was, as I have mentioned, reinforced by evolving the doctrine that one had to bring in the parties at the extremes, at the expense of those moderate parties that had actually made progress, in order to “cement” the situation. Of course, bringing in the extremes has not cemented the process in the way the NIO said it would. The uncertainties have remained, and they have been touched upon already.

I hope that the change of Government will produce a change of outlook and of policy. I hope too that Ministers will get control of the department and ensure that the attitude which states that “everything has to be done to please Gerry” ceases to be the case. This reinforces the point made by the noble Baroness: the consultation should be with all parties, and all parties should be equal in it. We cannot have a situation where one party is more equal than everyone else. That has to end. Until it does, the Northern Ireland Office will continue to be the unhappy place for the people of Northern Ireland that it has been for far too long.