Care Bill [HL]

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton Excerpts

Monday 22nd July 2013 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Campbell of Surbiton]

92ZZAB: Clause 36, page 30, line 43, after “4)” insert “and keep the adult and the carer informed of progress”

[Baroness Campbell of Surbiton]

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendment 92ZZAC and Amendment 92ZZAF.

I declare an interest as a long-term user of social care services. I have lived all my adult life in the same local authority. Like other disabled and older people who use social care services, I would find it impossible to move out of my local area because I could not be sure that my needs would be adequately met. Noble Lords will be aware that I have been very keen to change this deeply discriminatory state of affairs since I moved my first ever amendment in this House in May 2008 during the passage of the Health and Social Care Bill. I have returned to the issue several times in the past five years, culminating in my Private Member’s Bill on social care portability, which I recently introduced for a second time. Therefore, I am delighted that the Government have decided to put right this fundamental flaw in our social care system. I have been privileged to be closely involved in the Government’s deliberations on this issue for nearly three years. The Minister in another place told me very recently that my Private Member’s Bill was used as a template for the provisions in this Bill. That was very flattering, but flattery will not get you everywhere, and, on this, we are not quite there yet. There are a few points to be ironed out if social care portability is to work in practice.

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The noble Lord has flagged some useful elements. He was explicitly addressing regulations in much of what he said. It is extremely useful to hear from him. I can reassure him that we are extending the settings to which ordinary residence is deemed to apply beyond care homes alone. We shall consult on how best to ensure the regulations are comprehensive and flexible enough to deal with future changes in the provision of healthcare and support. I am sure that his comments will be noted. I thank him and other noble Lords for their contributions. As ever, we have had a very well informed debate. I hope that I have reassured noble Lords and that they will feel able not to press their amendments.

[Baroness Campbell of Surbiton]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her deliberations and her reflections on my amendments. I am glad that we have cleared up that touchy word, “equivalence”. I think that we are now on the same page.

However, I am worried about whether clarifications on the exchange of information and the updating of the user will give sufficient reassurance that services will be provided from day one. I understand that the Government are still working on and clarifying some of the issues with regard to assessment and involvement, and I think we all now understand what “outcomes” means. However, clarifying in guidance does not yet reassure me, because I have many examples of services users and their local authorities and good social workers being in contact with the second authority. They know what is coming their way. I am still deeply concerned that the Dave Morris example will happen again and again.

I am not convinced by the argument that the second authority is obliged pick up the bill from day one and that, should the first authority continue to pay, this would be a disincentive to the second. The second authority will have to pay this money back. Believe me, it will be far more vociferous than any service user. Thus I do not feel that there is an adequate safety net allowing the disabled person and their carer to be confident that the bills will be paid on day one. We still have a little bit more negotiation and clarification to do. I would be far more reassured by the mention of regulation in some of these areas but, for now, I will withdraw my amendment and look to the Minister and his very good, helpful and collaborative officials to go on working with me on this issue.

I am going away in the summer but only for two weeks. I will be back on this issue before and directly afterwards; I am a bit like a dog with a bone on this one. There is more work to do, but, for now, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 92ZZAB withdrawn.