Conversion Therapy Prohibition (Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity) Bill [HL]

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Friday 9th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, unlike the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, and the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, I support this Bill for LGBT+ people. It can be improved, and I hope it will be improved in Committee, but I have a rather different take on this issue.

I chair the National Commission on Forced Marriage. We have taken evidence from across the United Kingdom and discovered family members forced into marriage across a spectrum of society and not limited to non-white communities. Among some families, having a gay member of the family is unacceptable and contrary to custom and their religion. In some cases, steps are taken to bring that family member into line; we have evidence of this. In some communities, it is a matter of family honour; as they see it, the errant member brings shame on the family within their community. In extreme cases, it can lead to injury or death by defying the family, the community and what is seen as the family’s honour.

Some families arrange a marriage with a person of the opposite sex without consent; that is a forced marriage. Another method is conversion therapy. A family member is subjected to efforts to require him or her to accept that a sexual orientation outside the so-called normal heterosexual relationship is deviant and not acceptable, thereby requiring a change in his or her sexual orientation or the suppression of their sexual orientation.

Freedom of speech is part of our way of life, subject only to necessary statutory restrictions. Everyone has a right to their beliefs, religious or otherwise, but there is no right to impose one’s beliefs on another person, including one’s children. My children have widely differing views, and I dare not tell noble Lords about my grandchildren.

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, about puberty blockers. I do not believe that they should be allowed before the age of 18, but that is a different matter.

It is crucial to distinguish between well-meaning efforts to discuss an issue and the line being crossed by coercion. There are occasions, especially with teenagers, when a person is unsure about his or her sexuality; the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, referred to this. Discussions should be able to take place with parents and other responsible adults to explore where that unsure person stands. If a person has real difficulty in coming to terms with his or her sexual orientation, there is absolutely no reason for them not to seek and/or receive healthcare, including therapy from qualified providers. That is not conversion therapy, of course.

If the discussion is open and unpressurised, I cannot see how it could possibly become an offence under the Bill. However, if there is an assumption that it is wrong or a sin to be LGBT+, and the discussion has the intention of coercing the person into a different point of view, it has gone too far and would fall within the offence in this Bill—rightly, in my view.

As we all know, children and young people are particularly vulnerable. I can see nothing wrong with an open discussion on the issue of sexual orientation with a young member of the family, but if it moves to coercive behaviour, that is clearly unacceptable. It is important to recognise that parents have responsibility for their children naturally and, although some might not realise it, in law until the age of 18. They do not, however, have the right to impose their beliefs or views on their children. This Bill, as I hope it will be amended, would help LGBT+ people be protected from unacceptable efforts to make them conform to a heterosexual way of life that does not conform with their sexual orientation.