Statutory Shared Parental Pay (General) Regulations 2014

Baroness Brinton Excerpts

Monday 10th November 2014 Grand Committee

[Baroness Turner of Camden (Lab)]

My Lords, in general, I support the regulations, because I understand that the thinking behind them is to enable both parents to come together to care for the child; obviously, one supports that.

However, I should like to raise one or two issues with the Government, just for clarification. Incidentally, I thank the Minister for the detailed paper that has been issued in support of the regulations. The regulations stipulate that for an eligible mother to meet the requirements for a shared allowance and so on, she must curtail her maternity or adoption leave in order that the curtailment can be used to support the new shared parental provisions.

This could give rise to some problems here and there, because not every couple is married and not every couple is living together. The mother might have difficulty contacting the father to enable them to come to an agreement in relation to the shared provision provided for in these regulations. One has to remember that relationships are not all exactly as we would wish them to be. People do not always live together—they may have a child together but may not live together, and the woman may therefore have the obligation placed on her of trying to sort things out and make sure that the shared rights are available. If she has to curtail her own share, that may be a bit more difficult. Have the Government thought about this? We are of course working in this situation where not everybody is in married partnerships or even living together. Nevertheless, we want to ensure that both parents participate in looking after the child, when the child needs to be looked after, and that the rights under the regulations are properly shared between the two parents.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, the legislation in the Children and Families Bill went through extremely smoothly. In fact, I think it was one of the smoothest things I have seen in the four and a half years since I came into the House because all sides welcomed the introduction of parental leave. Just looking at noble Lords around the Grand Committee, I do not remember any amendments at all during the passage of the Bill, which was very encouraging. I am principally glad—I am delighted that my noble friend outlined this at the start—that the interpretation of “family” in Regulation 3 gives a clear picture that it comes in all shapes and sizes, including same-sex partnerships. The issue about the family unit is a difficult one but I hope this also covers the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Turner, that a family is not always at the same address. Recognition of that about the family unit is most important and is a major step forward for government. Let us hope that employers are as encouraging. I am delighted to see that adopters have the same entitlement to leave. It is even more essential when a child may have had a distressing start to their life to be able to have that relationship with both of their new parents.

I have two questions, which are not so much about the regulations but about their application. The first relates to Regulation 17, which modifies the eight-week regulation where a child is born early. I have a nagging worry that employers might use these regulations to be less than compassionate to a partner where the mother and the baby might still be in hospital. If the baby is in a neonatal intensive care unit, could the employer say, “Well no, the mother is using the leave and therefore you can’t”? It is quite possible these days for a baby to be in a neonatal intensive care unit for more than the eight weeks covered by the early period after birth. The second question refers to the following regulation, on change of circumstances. Can the Minister provide some reassurance that there will be monitoring of employers saying that it is not convenient to change arrangements at fairly short notice? If this becomes a default reason for refusing change, it will be defeating the object of the regulations.

Part 5, on taking shared parental leave, includes a regulation looking at protection from detriment. There is some concern over the right to return after shared leave in Regulation 41 that the job the partner can go back to is broadly in sympathy with the job that the mother can return to. I think it would be wrong for a partner to have a less robust facility to go back to their prior job. It would be reassuring to hear that that is the case.

Will there be codes of practice for employers on how they can liaise with each other when dealing with this arrangement between a mother and a partner trying to break down the leave between themselves, particularly in relation to statutory maternal/paternal pay?

On a positive note, I know of at least one young couple who have delayed starting their family until this comes into place because the partner works for a very open-minded organisation and he would like to test it on extended parental leave at a fairly early date.

Finally, we need some really good evidence of how this is being used to encourage employers and prospective parents that this is something that will really change the nature of a child’s first year’s relationship with both their parents.

[Lord Young of Norwood Green (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply. I do not know whether this is his first time in this Room. If it is—I think it must be—I offer him a warm welcome. My only complaint is that the progress made under the previous Government was given rather short shrift, if the Minister does not mind me saying so, so I will give a little historical background. The Labour Government transformed rights for women and families in order to help them balance earning a living and caring for their family. Over 13 years, Labour extended paid maternity leave to nine months and the right to take maternity leave to 12 months and gave new entitlements to paternity leave and pay for fathers.

The Labour Government also introduced the right to request flexible working. In 2009, this was extended to parents with children up to the age of 16. We introduced a right to request flexible working to people with caring responsibilities for disabled or elderly relatives and to parents with disabled children up to the age of 18. We ought to remember that David Cameron and the Conservatives voted against the introduction of paternity of leave, the extension of maternity leave and the right to request flexible working. I always welcome a Government having a Damascene moment, and I am glad that the Government are on board, as they nowadays are, with the minimum wage.

We support today’s regulations to reform the work-life balance for families. We think they are positive and comprehensive legislation. As I worked my way through them, I admit that they started to make my cerebral cortex ache with the various circumstances that might apply. The Government have tried comprehensively to account for more or less every circumstance that one could think of. Shared parental leave is a step towards levelling the playing field for fathers, and that is to be welcomed. The Minister talked about facilitating a cultural shift. That is an ambitious project and it takes time, but I think it is the right thing to say. I do not say that in a derogatory way. That is what we are trying to do. The Minister drew out some points, including the importance of maintaining links with work. Today, both fathers and mothers, but principally women, want to continue careers. I also welcome the fact that we now have a situation where both parents can be at home, using that curtailment. There is flexibility.

I also recognise that this is a challenge for employers and that they will need adequate notice. The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, made a valid point about the need for a code of practice or guidance, given that there will be different employers.

Returning to the point about facilitating a cultural shift, we would be interested in hearing from the Minister what the Government will do to promote shared parental leave, because we will have to promote it. We know from the data available for the first two years of additional parental leave that only an estimated 1% of eligible fathers took it, so a cultural shift takes time.

The Government estimated in their impact assessment that between 2% and 8% of fathers would take up shared parental leave. However, experts claimed that that figure was optimistic. As I said, only 1% of fathers have taken additional parental leave, which shows that even the lower end of the Government’s estimate looks optimistic. That takes us back to what positive steps the Government are taking to promote this.