Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Berridge and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Tuesday 28th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, I raised this matter at Second Reading. The issue of inchoate offences is very important, particularly in this context. It sends the criminal law much further down, into preparatory acts. In these situations you often have a group of people acting—passing on information to buyers, et cetera. You often need to scoop quite a large number of people, so I would be grateful for confirmation from the Minister, because the inchoate offences in this context are an incredibly important part of stamping down all activity in relation to this illegal trade.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, in addressing these two amendments I hope to satisfy noble Lords, but if I do not we should speak between now and Report. I appreciate that the aim of the amendments is to ensure that the Bill allows the UK to meet all our obligations under the convention and its two protocols. Clause 4, as currently drafted, already allows the UK to meet its obligations under Article 15(2) of the Second Protocol and the legislation will comply with,

“general principles of law and international law”.

I will outline my main points now, although, given that this is a technical and complicated issue to explain briefly, I will reflect on what has been asked and send noble Lords a note setting out the Government’s position on this amendment.

The purpose and effect of Clause 4 are to ensure that the UK has extraterritorial jurisdiction to try all ancillary offences in the same circumstances in which Clause 3 establishes such jurisdiction to try the substantive offences. It does not establish the ancillary offences, which already exist under at least five different and relevant pieces of legislation. The good news is that these apply automatically to offences under Clause 3. In respect of England and Wales and Northern Ireland, the definitions of,

“An offence ancillary to an offence under section 3”,

are limited to the offences of attempting, conspiring, assisting and concealing, because it is only in relation to these offences that there might be doubt as to their extraterritorial application.

Where the existing law is clear as to extraterritorial application—which it is in relation to aiding and abetting and the offences under the Serious Crime Act 2007, which replaced the previous offence of incitement—no provision is made. However, as noble Lords will appreciate, to make such provision unnecessarily would be bad drafting practice and could create doubt as to the other situations where no such express provision is made.

The position in relation to Scottish criminal law is different and this is taken into account in the drafting of Clause 4(6). I assure noble Lords that the Scottish Government have, of course, been consulted on this provision.

I hope that brief explanation, together with the note that I am planning to send to noble Lords, will provide sufficient explanation and reassurance that we have taken the correct approach on ancillary offences, and that the noble Lord will feel able to withdraw the amendment.

Apprenticeships

Debate between Baroness Berridge and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Wednesday 4th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I have never been accused of not being enthusiastic so I celebrate that day. The changes we are making to apprenticeships will make a huge difference, including to younger people, for exactly the reasons I gave in my first reply.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, on the Social Mobility Select Committee we heard excellent evidence, particularly from engineering companies, of 18 year-olds who join and go all the way up to the board of directors. We also heard that some City firms are addressing their recruitment needs by moving from recruiting only graduates to recruiting a proportion at 18. Can my noble friend the Minister please outline how the 750 or so Whitehall Civil Service apprenticeships, including the Civil Service Fast Track, are put into the system so that young people who join at 18 have the structures and the encouragement that they can go all the way to being a Permanent Secretary in the Civil Service?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My noble friend is absolutely right to emphasise what is happening in companies right across the board, and the way that accountancy firms and retailers are moving to attracting people at 18. In the Civil Service, we have set a target so that by 2020 2.3% of new staff will have to be apprentices. I have an apprentice in my own team and I am absolutely clear that this will provide that second path to opportunity, which we see in other countries such as Germany and Switzerland but so far we have not had here.

Iraq and Syria: Religious and Cultural Heritage

Debate between Baroness Berridge and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Thursday 10th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their strategy to prevent stolen items of religious and cultural heritage from Iraq and Syria being illegally imported into the United Kingdom and then used to finance terrorist activities.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) (Con)]

My Lords, our strategy is to prevent the illegal importation of Iraqi and Syrian antiquities through UK customs and border controls. Border Force officers, supported by HMRC intelligence officers and investigators, enforce the comprehensive sanctions legislation that is in place. Our current assessment is that ISIL’s revenue stream from the illegal trade in oil is far more significant than that raised from trade in Iraqi and Syrian antiquities.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

I thank my noble friend the Minister for her response. She will join me in noting how sad it was to learn of the death of the archaeologist Khaled al-Asaad, killed by IS for bravely refusing to reveal where artefacts from Palmyra were stored. This overall global trade is worth millions and is a means of funding terrorist operations. Britain is seen as a key nation because of our world-renowned universities, archaeologists, museums and auction houses. Will the Minister please outline whether it is still the Government’s commitment, as outlined in the previous Parliament, that we should now ratify the 1954 convention for the protection of cultural property in the event of armed conflict and outline when parliamentary time will be found for this?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, I agree with everything that my noble friend said. I pay tribute in particular to the dedication of heritage professionals in dangerous regions such as this, including the late Khaled al-Asaad, who gave his life to protect the treasures of Palmyra. We will bring forward legislation to ratify the Hague convention at the first opportunity. This is a new Government. The Secretary of State regards it as a priority. We are committed to protecting cultural property during armed conflict. Noble Lords will be glad to hear that our Armed Forces already act in the spirit of the convention and its protocols.