Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Baroness Berridge Excerpts

Monday 3rd June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge]

My Lords, this legislation brings into sharp focus the role of another important institution in our society—the state. It is an actor on this stage, promoting a view of marriage, so it has a high duty to get the statutory framework correct so that it preserves or actually encourages dissenting views in the national and local public square. For many years, the public square did not allow debate on immigration; any dissenters were racists and shut out. Such silence brings, at best, outward conformity, and led, I think, to more people walking past my flat on Saturday for the EDL than would have done if there had been a free debate. Any Member’s inbox will show how divisive this issue has become, and how strongly held the views are, but the public square is again in danger of being shut down. Dissenters are often automatically bigots or homophobic—or like the state of Alabama making Rosa Parks give up her seat on the bus. That is a false analogy—and that racism label again, but in a way that it would take more than a soundbite to distinguish.

Many gay people do not support same sex marriage. Are they homophobic? It is interesting to look at the exchanges in the other place between two highly respected Members of Parliament, Mr Burrowes and Mr Lammy, with Mr Lammy using a slave owner analogy and the ultimately mild-mannered Mr Burrowes saying that this argument was pernicious, offensive and playing the race card. Clearly, we cannot leave the average bobby to police this on our streets without further guidance, so this House will need to consider carefully amendments on free speech that the Government conceded were needed in the other place. Until these concessions, the Government argued that this Bill merely concerns the conduct of the ceremony itself. But legislation affects culture, debate and even atmosphere. Section 28 of the Local Government Act reflected a state view on marriage, and the gay community complained that the effect went much further than the words of the statute—and so it could be with this statute.

The state should have a view, but not a required orthodoxy. Healthy societies have pluralistic public spaces, and I have yet to come across a gay person who disagrees with this. We need to disagree without being disagreeable. Whether this statute adequately protects religious freedoms brings up some of the interesting legal questions at the cutting edge of jurisprudence, and lawyers are lining up on either side of this debate. The protections must work, because religious people are not going away. I hope that I have been wrong in detecting something of an attitude that soon the Church of England and other religious groups will get with the programme and soon just join in with all the Bill. As the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, so eloquently stated, we cannot often predict the winds of change. This may well prove to be a moment when we look back and see that the Anglican Church put its stake in the sand in relation to marriage, and we do not know where the views will end up in 40 years’ time. I want to put on public record that I appreciate the stance that the Church of England has taken.

It is interesting to note that western Europe has been out of step over the past 50 years with the rest of the globe. The rest of the globe got seriously more religious. If South Korea can go from about 0% Christians to more than 50% Christians in 100 years, and I look at the renewed leadership of the Anglican Church, I am optimistic. But even if the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, is correct that the Strasbourg court will not compel a religious organisation to conduct a same-sex marriage, is that all religious groups can hope for—mere non-compulsion? If a small temple is denied local authority grants for its youth group due to its views on same-sex marriage, it should switch money from the food bank to legal fees to sue for direct or indirect discrimination. No, my Lords. This House should put in the Bill the onus on the state not to treat people detrimentally or less favourably and not leave it to the citizen or charities to have to go to court.

Finally, I will speak about my role here today. The complaint that this Bill was not in a manifesto has caused me to remember that the public did not vote for me; and at this moment I am actually grateful, standing as a Conservative, for that fact. I cannot be held to account by those who support the Bill. The people’s representatives in the other place had a free vote and voted overwhelmingly for this Bill. It badly needs amending. It needs this Chamber to do what it does best and improve and scrutinise legislation. The religious groups are not, I am afraid, generally content with this Bill, as my noble friend the Minister stated. The Catholics, black-led churches and other faiths, who believe that now they could be in an even more vulnerable position than the Anglican Church, need us to do our job. If this vote defeats the Bill, it will probably return next year, and we risk the Commons using the Parliament Act. In those circumstances this flawed Bill, as it stands now, would become law. Do I want to vote against this Bill? Yes. Should I? No.