Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Baroness Keeley Excerpts

Friday 30th January 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Jay, just asked us to consider the circumstances of those who are seeking an assisted death, but I would like to give a salutary lesson—I am sorry to disagree with the noble Baroness, Lady Gerada.

My father was taken ill during the Covid pandemic. He did not have a smartphone and was not able to have an in-person consultation. He had jaundice. The message he came away with from speaking to a doctor on the telephone—the doctor had never met him—was, “It’s pancreatic cancer”. My father then spent weeks saying goodbye to all his relatives and friends. By the time relevant tests had been done, it was shown that he did not have pancreatic cancer.

That demonstrates one of the flaws of doing something remotely, which is: what are the messages? The doctors are not getting the cues and the patient is not necessarily hearing what the doctor is saying. I am sure that the doctor did not say, “Mr Smith, you have pancreatic cancer”—clearly, they could not have said that—but that was the message that my father heard. I therefore very strongly support the amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Evans of Rainow, and two of the amendments from the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra.

However, I want to express one serious reservation about Amendment 406A from the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra. If the discussion has to be taken by video conference, it might not be appropriate to say that in every circumstance the only person who should be on that call is the patient. We all know that, when you go to the doctors, even if you are there in person, you have capacity, you are a rational person and you do not have any cognitive difficulties, you do not hear everything. Sometimes, if it is a difficult diagnosis, you do not take everything on board. For some people who are told that they have a terminal diagnosis and understand that that is the case—unlike in the false case of my late father, who did not have a terminal condition at that stage—we know what their settled will is. There are several people in your Lordships’ House who have what their settled will is very clearly on record, in the public domain. But there will be other people with whom the doctor has never spoken before, so they cannot know whether it is somebody’s settled will in a way that the legislation requires.

If, then, there has to be a video conversation, or indeed an in-person conversation, it might be appropriate for there to be an independent advocate or somebody else who would support that person and could say, “The doctor did not really say that, you know”. We need to think about real-life cases. Yes, we need to understand from the medical profession, and it needs to be from the perspective of somebody with a terminal diagnosis, but we also need to understand the reality for ordinary people who do not have the advantages of the internet or the accessibility that Members of your Lordships’ House have.

[Baroness Keeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I will speak on face-to-face consultation; my Amendment 483 on this is in a later group.

During the Covid-19 pandemic, it was briefly made possible for the making of a will to be witnessed by videolink rather than in person. This change could have been made permanent, but instead the Government decided that the videolink provision should cease from January 2024. The law is now again that the witness must have a clear line of sight of the person making the will. Are these precautions any less important when assessing whether someone truly wants an assisted death and is not being coerced than when establishing what should happen to their assets afterwards?

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Keeley, has already alluded to the issue of wills, so I will not go to that, but there is another legal precedent, Devon Partnership NHS Trust v the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care in 2021, when the High Court ruled that under the Mental Health Act, the phrases “personally seen” and “personally examined” require the clinician and approved mental health professional to be physically present with the patient for detention assessments. Following that, NHS England reviewed its guidance. That underscores the legal and clinical importance of physical co-present evaluation when decisions carry high consequence.

Secondly, during Covid I chaired the National Mental Capacity Forum and ran fast-track online seminars for those who were doing remote assessments because of the problem of people in care homes. It was a very difficult time and that was a public health necessity. Since then, some remote consultations have certainly continued, as we have already heard. However, the qualitative studies of remote mental health care during the pandemic found that a lack of face-to-face contact compromised risk assessment and therapeutic insight.

Systemic reviews have noted significant difficulty establishing a therapeutic relationship, identifying risk, and with challenges in picking up non-verbal communication and building rapport coming through as recurrent themes. They caution how remote assessments can be less effective in capturing complex, subtle behaviours, non-verbal distress, agitation and contextual pressures, which are crucial in determining voluntariness and in detecting distress or coercion. Clinicians and carers have reported that non-verbal cues were often unavailable or obscured in remote interactions, particularly telephone consultations but also by video. Even when remote assessments were used only to triage risk, delaying face-to-face evaluation, the effects slowed down accurate identification of deteriorating conditions.