Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)

Debate between Anne Begg and John Hemming

Tuesday 3rd March 2015 Commons Chamber

[John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD)]

I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg), the Chair of the Select Committee. She raises a number of interesting points that were debated in the private Member’s Bill introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George), the Affordable Homes Bill, which proposed a number of changes to the social sector criteria—the bedroom tax, spare room rent or whatever one wants to call it. One of those changes would, under certain circumstances, automatically exempt people with disabilities from being required to pay for a spare room.

In law as it currently stands, under article 14 of the European convention on human rights, there is a legally enforceable right to get hold of discretionary housing payments. I have achieved that in Birmingham in a couple of cases, by using the threat of it rather than making the application to court. My constituency experience is that in the cases in which we should get DHP, in general we have got it. I agree that we should have an automatic exemption from paying for spare rooms for those people who need them because they have a disability, which is obvious, and those whose homes have been adapted. However, we have managed to get DHP in those cases, and we are getting longer DHP awards following the changes that defined the budget for two-year periods, so some progress is being made.

The other change proposed in the Affordable Homes Bill was that people who said that they wanted to move would not have to pay. Of course, that is between 10% and 20% of people. In fact, I think that the figures for Birmingham show that roughly half those who were originally having to pay for spare rooms no longer have to, although obviously people are flowing in and out of the system. I find it rather sad—perhaps the Minister will take note of this point—that although the Department gets monthly statistics from all local authorities on what is going on with awards of DHP and the like, spare room rent and so on, we do not get up-to-date figures on the situation.

One of the changes introduced in April 2013 was to enable people in the social rented sector to benefit in the same way as those who own their own homes if they want to let out a spare room to a lodger or boarder. Not only would they not have to pay for the spare room, but they could keep up to £20 a week of the additional money. Given that the applicable amount for a 25-year-old is currently around £71.70, £20 a week is quite a lot of money. I believe that only a handful of people in Birmingham have taken that up, but I think that is because people do not know that they can benefit.

I had a meeting last night with care leavers, during which we discussed housing, because it is absolutely critical for them. We discussed how tight their budgets are when they have to live on means-tested benefits, because they have to pay water, gas and electricity bills, so there are great merits in people sharing property in certain circumstances. I advise young people to consider sharing, rather than trying to live alone. They raised a concern that even though they got some priority as care leavers, they were still given only one choice of property—take it or leave it. I think that varies from local authority to local authority, but perhaps more could be done in that regard.

In my constituency advice bureau I get people who are very upset. The last person who was in tears was a constituent who was in overcrowded accommodation; they could not live comfortably in the two-bedroom flat they had. I find it sad that we are still not managing to deal with those who are under-occupying and those who are over-occupying in such a way that councils can resolve the issue. I recently had a case in which a pensioner wanted to downsize from a house but the council was being exceedingly difficult about it, saying, “When you took the house, certain adaptations were made, so we want you to reinstate them before we move you.” Obviously he is not paying the spare room rent, but he is still occupying a house that could be occupied by a family. I do not think that there is the urgency that there should be in local authorities to try to deal with overcrowding.

[Dame Anne Begg]

Actually, there is a need to ensure that people are appropriately housed and that they move, but very little of that responsibility lies with local authorities. The wrong way to go about it is just to take money from people who are over-occupying and would love to move but are not in a position to do so.

[John Hemming]

I personally think that it would be harsh to go around evicting everybody who is under-occupying, although that happens when people try to succeed to a tenancy; they are told that they cannot do so because the property is too big. I do not think that overcrowding is taken sufficiently seriously. Malcolm Wicks highlighted in his memoirs how he argued, when a Labour Housing Minister, for the need to bring in something akin to the current situation.

Housing Benefit

Debate between Anne Begg and John Hemming

Wednesday 26th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[John Hemming]

With the charges for a spare room, it has taken some time to identify those people who are willing to transfer. Discretionary housing payments have been made available to people. I have seen payments for DHP go through. People come and talk to me about their personal problems, and I work to get them resolved. I do not think I voted for that amendment, but I have not checked the records so I do not know. It is important to remember that the quantum of DHP is critical. The Government have recently announced DHP for the next two financial years, and that is how we protect people with disabilities who need a spare room for one reason or another. However, it is not possible to achieve that and give this exemption or that exemption.

[Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman makes great play of saving money, but if it were a perfect world and there were properties to move into, according to the Government’s impact assessment that would not save any money. If people cannot move and they get DHP, that does not save money either. How will all the money be saved unless it is taken from those who have no choice?

[John Hemming]

I did explain that point, looking at examples of those who take in family members. Cases in Redcar have been cited where, because of the interplay between the non-dependent deduction in housing benefit and the spare room rent, it is now in parents’ financial interests to keep their adult children in the property, which it was not previously. That is a way to reduce the overall cost to the housing benefit budget without reducing quality of life.