Brexit Negotiations

Debate between Ann Clwyd and Boris Johnson

Thursday 3rd October 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for everything she does to bring colleagues together on this issue. I do not know whether this is the end of the beginning or the beginning of the second half of the middle, or exactly where we are in this process, but there is momentum now behind these proposals. [Interruption.] I am not going to pretend that this will be easy or that this is a done deal. Hon. Members are right to be cautious, but the UK has moved a long way, and I hope that our partners will recognise that and move correspondingly.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

As the Prime Minister has repeatedly demonstrated this morning, the information about the political declaration is very vague indeed. It would not protect jobs, rights or security, and does not seek to address the major reasons why Opposition Members opposed the deal put forward three times by the previous Prime Minister. Will this Prime Minister tell us how he thinks the European Parliament will react to his proposals? Has he had any contact with those at the European Parliament? Has he had any indication as to how they are feeling?

[The Prime Minister]

Yes, certainly; I have of course talked to the President of the European Parliament, in which the right hon. Lady served with such distinction. I can tell her and the House that what the European Parliament overwhelmingly wants is a deal, rather than no deal, and I am sure that it will see this is the basis of a very good deal.

Prime Minister's Update

Debate between Ann Clwyd and Boris Johnson

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

All I can say is that what I think every Member of the House would like to see, and what our constituents would certainly like to see, is the maximum efficiency in government. The hon. Gentleman has mentioned something about which I am afraid I was hitherto unaware, and I cannot tell him whether he is accurate in what he says, but I certainly know what we should be doing as a country. As I said in the UN last night—at four o’clock in the morning—this is the country that leads in the tech sector in all sorts of ways, and we intend, as part of our Government programme, to turbocharge that. That was one of the reasons why we needed a Queen’s Speech, and still do.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

I have been in this House for 35 years and I spent five years in the European Parliament, from 1979 to 1984, with the Prime Minister’s father, who I have to say was a very valuable member of a committee that I chaired. He was a keen environmentalist. All I can say after listening to this debate tonight is that your father talked a lot more sense than you do, Prime Minister.

[The Prime Minister]

I must humbly accept the criticism of the right hon. Lady, whom I have come to admire over many years, particularly for her campaigns on the Kurds, the environment and many other issues. She has done a huge amount of good. She is perfectly right to say that my father is a great environmentalist, and I hope that this Government will be allowed to fulfil some of his dreams, whether on animal welfare or conservation or the many other issues that he cares about. That is one of the reasons why I hope to have a Queen’s Speech in which we can deliver on some of those ideals.

Oman, UAE and Iran

Debate between Ann Clwyd and Boris Johnson

Monday 11th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

I would agree with that, and I thank my hon. Friend for that point. As I have said many times to the House, we should note the progress that Saudi Arabia is making; the “Vision 2030” that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has announced and is pursuing is full of hope for that country. What a transformation it would be for the region if the custodian of the holy shrines of Mecca and Medina could make the kind of progress that he envisages—it could be transformational. No one could remotely say that is going to be easy, or that the project has no enemies, because it sure as heck has enemies, but it deserves support, and it will get the support and encouragement of this Government. We hope that the Crown Prince will be able to visit this country next year.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

There are two immediate things this country should do. First, it should stop selling arms to Saudi Arabia, as that has simply fuelled what is going on in Yemen. Secondly, it should pay to Iran the money we owe it in debt—perhaps the Foreign Secretary has agreed to do that. I hope we can thus see the release of the dual nationals—Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe and others who are held in Iran and should be released. Will the Foreign Secretary share with us whether he attempted to see Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe? Did he ask to see those people? Was he refused? What exactly was the situation?

[Boris Johnson]

I pay tribute to the right hon. Lady, who has been a great campaigner on humanitarian issues throughout the middle east. I must say, though, that I disagree with her on this issue, as she knows. We in the UK have the strictest possible rules and laws on the administration of our arms exports to ensure that they are used only in compliance with international humanitarian law. Were the UK to abstract itself from that scene, there would be plenty of other countries that would be only too happy to fill the void and we would lose our ability to engage and influence in the way I have described.

On the right hon. Lady’s point about debts, we acknowledge the debts that we have and it is a matter of public Government policy to try to settle them. As she knows, there are legal and technical obstacles to be overcome. I should stress that those issues have nothing to do with the difficult consular cases we face. As for the contacts I had with the family members of any of those involved in our consular cases, it would probably be better if I respected their privacy.

Syria and North Korea

Debate between Ann Clwyd and Boris Johnson

Tuesday 18th April 2017 Commons Chamber

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

In 1988, I took a cross-party group from this House to see some of the survivors of the Halabja attack. There was lot of discussion about who was responsible, and people such as Professor Alastair Hay went out to Halabja and brought back soil samples and evidence. I wonder whether experts in the UK are again being used to find out who perpetrated this terrible carnage and suffering on the Syrian people. Has the Foreign Secretary talked to such people, who could be of help again due to their experience in dealing with chemical weapons?

[Boris Johnson]

I well remember the right hon. Lady’s efforts in respect of Halabja, and she played a big part in hardening my heart against Saddam Hussein many years ago. She campaigned on the matter with great effect, and rightly so.

What we are doing today is supporting the OPCW’s expert fact-finding mission, and I have sketched out all we know about what happened on the morning of 4 April—the best evidence that we have so far—and I hope the House will believe that the evidence is very persuasive indeed. The fact-finding mission will now draw on a variety of sources, including samples from the victims, environmental samples, munition fragments, footage of the incident and its aftermath, and interviews with survivors, people who were first on the scene, medics and eye witnesses. The mission will be able to draw on signals intelligence, flight tracking, data analysis, meteorological information and other information that will be shared by us and other countries concerned.

Our experience is that such fact-finding missions are able to reach conclusions in very difficult circumstances and, going back to the point I made to the right hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry), we need such information to create the evidential trail to the individuals responsible. There is good evidence already, and we will use what we have, when and where possible, not only to impose sanctions but to pursue prosecutions for war crimes.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ann Clwyd and Boris Johnson

Tuesday 22nd November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

Will the Minister assure us that the UK will continue to assist in the gathering of evidence for war crimes and crimes against humanity in Syria, so that, eventually, those responsible for these terrible atrocities will be brought to book?

[Boris Johnson]

I can reassure the right hon. Lady, who I know has campaigned on this issue for many years, that the initiative that we started in September at the UN General Assembly with the Belgians and other countries continues to work well. We are gathering the evidence that we need, and I am confident that in due course we will bring Daesh operatives to justice.