Podiatry Services

Debate between Andy Sawford and Jane Ellison

Wednesday 4th December 2013 Westminster Hall

[Jane Ellison]

Access is an important factor. The hon. Gentleman is right to highlight the fact that improving and maintaining access is important.

Sometimes education is about making sure that people understand when to seek help and what the warning signs are. Podiatry is an important component of early alert work, as well as an important provision for older people and for people with long-term conditions. In situations in which services need to be changed, the NHS commitment is to make sure decisions are made in a clear and transparent way, so that patients and the public can understand how services are planned and delivered.

Through the mandate, NHS England is responsible for services and for working with local clinical commissioning groups to ensure that their services are based on the needs of the local population within the resources available—the hon. Member for Corby acknowledged the constraints—and there has to be evidenced-based best practice.

An important part of the reforms was to establish CCGs at the level at which commissioning decisions are informed. They are closer to their local communities and can respond to local needs, but they have access to good advice through NHS England, clinical senates and local professional networks. That commissioning process also takes into account the local authority’s views, with regard to the joint strategic needs assessment and, of course, the local health and well-being strategy, so these decisions do not exist in a vacuum: they are taken within a framework, all of which is geared towards local services responding to the needs of local people.

Of course, a big part of that—it is something I am always keen to stress—is the engagement with local democratically elected representatives. I am really pleased that the hon. Gentleman is so engaged with this issue. Whenever I have the chance to talk to people from any part of the health service in the course of my work, I stress the need to keep local councillors and local MPs closely informed and to work with them in making these key decisions, because I know that we are often the early warning signal when people have concerns. Like the hon. Gentleman, I have had people come to my surgery about these issues and that has been an early alert about when people might have concerns. It also allows us to respond to concerns that perhaps arise sometimes when a misunderstanding of a decision is causing undue alarm.

[Andy Sawford]

On the point about misunderstandings, the Minister is right. I do not want to alarm people across my area about services that they may still be able to access, but will she look at this issue in relation to Northamptonshire? If she has any opportunity to talk to the local CCGs or Northamptonshire Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust, will she ask them to make clearer what guidance there is and what assessment process there will be to ensure that people who can still access these services know that they can do so and are assessed as being in the group that can still access them?

[Jane Ellison]

The CCGs and NHS England are obviously aware of the debates that we have here in Parliament; I always undertake to draw to the attention of the correct parts of the NHS the debates that we have here. It is obviously not for me to tell CCGs what to do or what to commission. However, this is the whole point such debates —to highlight Members’ concerns, to give Ministers a chance to respond to them, and to explore how more could be done to allay those concerns and respond to them—so I am very happy that we are getting this discussion on the record.

The hon. Gentleman raised the issue of the education and training of podiatrists. Health Education England is working to ensure that there is an appropriate balance between supply and demand. We have already talked about the likelihood—indeed, the certainty—that demand for podiatry services will grow, because of our ageing population. HEE looks at the number of training places being commissioned. In collaboration with HEE, employers are also obviously keen to ensure that there are sufficient podiatrists to deliver the services that are needed. HEE will publish the national work force plan for England in early December—so, any time now. This year, providers have forecast their future work force requirements, which are obviously based on local service demand and which local education and training boards have moderated, to make adjustments for their education and training commissions. That piece of work is being gauged sensitively to look at local demand and the need for service provision. The assessment will be available in the published plan, which will show the position right across England.

Obviously, that process looks to the future, but we already know that the number of podiatrists working in the NHS has increased during the last 10 years, from 2,916 full-time equivalents in 2002 to 3,067 full-time equivalents in 2012, which is an increase of about 5% during that time. We are also continuing to develop the profession. The hon. Gentleman rightly highlighted that this is an area in which we need growing expertise. We introduced legislation that came into force on 20 August 2013 that enables podiatrists and physiotherapists to prescribe independently, following recommendations from the Commission on Human Medicines. Therefore, podiatrists who successfully complete education programmes approved by the Health and Care Professions Council, including conversion courses to allow existing supplementary prescribers to become independent prescribers, can begin to prescribe independently in 2014. That is a helpful step forward. Extending prescribing in this way will also help to support the key role that podiatrists play in shifting care into the community and improving the patient experience. It will benefit patients by making it more convenient for them to get treatment, as well as hopefully freeing up some valuable GP time.

We recognise that some of the people accessing podiatry services will be vulnerable; we have talked about that issue and the hon. Gentleman expressed his concern about it in his speech. We are reviewing how primary care, urgent and emergency care, and social care services can all work together as part of the integrated out-of-hospital response, looking at the whole person and considering the essential point that the hon. Gentleman made about how we can keep people out of hospital when they do not need to be there, by doing the good early alert work and ensuring that things do not progress to a point where we have the unnecessary amputations that he described.

To support that vision, the Government are working with NHS England on an out-of-hospital care plan for vulnerable older people. In doing so, we are engaged with patients, carers, and health and social care staff—all those important groups—to test those proposals and implement them. The final plan will be published later. I think that the hon. Gentleman will realise from recent announcements that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health has put enormous emphasis on the need for joined-up thinking about supporting people, particularly the frail elderly, and that is a clear priority that we have talked about a lot. All the things that the hon. Gentleman mentioned in his speech this morning are part of that process, to ensure that people understand that they have a named GP who can support them and to ensure that we spot signs of problems early. That personalised, proactive primary care is essential.

[Andy Sawford]

I see the Minister looking at the clock and I sense that she has a little more to say, but can she just say whether GPs will be able to refer people to podiatrists, in such a way that the service is free? Can GPs be a helpful way of ensuring that people in Northamptonshire who really need this service can get it?

[Jane Ellison]

Right across the country I would absolutely expect GPs, when they see the warning signs of problems, to alert people to the need for further care. That is one of the advantages of having a named GP; hopefully, they will spot the signs of problems early and recommend whatever the appropriate services are. That is very much part of the system that we envisage.

However, we also need multi-disciplinary teamworking; we need people to be joined up in their thinking. Obviously podiatry services are part of that. The hon. Gentleman has eloquently raised the concerns of his constituents and his own concerns this morning. One of the things that he focused on was the question of who are low-risk patients and how is someone assessed as low-risk. I understand that the CCGs involved modified their recommendations for future service provision in response to feedback received during the consultation, so children and vulnerable patients will still be able to access community podiatry services. However, I sense that his concern is that further work might be needed to flesh that plan out, and I know that the CCGs will have heard him express that concern; he has put it on the record today, saying that he is still concerned that those recommendations might still not be fully understood and that he would like to see more work done in that regard. I believe that the analysis carried out by the CCGs showed that only 1% of low-risk patients move into the medium or high- risk categories, but I know that he will want to have ongoing discussions about the nature of that assessment and about that figure.

I also believe that the CCGs involved took into consideration the number of local independent podiatrists who are registered with their professional body, with regard to the low-level community-based care. They are also rightly exploring the potential of developing a broader range of low-level foot care and podiatry services via the third sector and social enterprises, as part of their emerging health and well-being strategy. That is the right thing to do. Some of these services do not need to be delivered by a clinician of any sort; sometimes they might be delivered more appropriately in another setting. I believe that one of the advantages of an increasing emphasis on local planning and integrated service planning at a local level is that people can think outside the box about where certain services—particularly these important early alert services and low-risk services that can prevent people from becoming a higher risk—can be delivered.

The hon. Gentleman has put his concerns on the record; it is right that MPs have the chance to do that. The local CCGs will have heard the concerns that he and other Members who have intervened in this debate have raised, and I am sure that they will be looking to respond to and allay them. However, some of those concerns were based on speculation about what might happen if this piece of work is not got right, and it is important that we find the balance between having due concern about what might happen if services are not got right and if the commissioning of them is not right, and at the same time sending a very clear signal to those people who have medical concerns, such as diabetes or the early onset of other problems, that they must seek help and that they will receive that help. They must not be put off seeking help because of concerns about the future commissioning of services.

It was useful to put all these issues on the record, and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman’s local CCGs and other CCGs will be looking to respond further to the concerns that he and other hon. Members have outlined today.