Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Andy Sawford and Chris Williamson(10 years, 10 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab)
5. What assessment he has made of the availability of bus services across the country.
Andy Sawford (Corby) (Lab/Co-op)
12. What assessment he has made of the availability of bus services across the country.
Local Audit and Accountability Bill [Lords]
Debate between Andy Sawford and Chris Williamson
Andy Sawford
My hon. Friend is right in his interpretation of the new clause. Clause 26 on the inspection of documents sets out the documents that would reasonably be made available for inspection in public bodies. We would extend that to private sector contractors.
Chris Williamson
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that clarification. I hope that provides the reassurance Government Members were seeking.
In conclusion, we are moving to a new era in which the Audit Commission will be abolished and more private sector auditors will get involved in the market. It is important that those are subject to appropriate scrutiny, and we must therefore ensure that instruments are available to enable such scrutiny to take place. According to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, up to £20 billion will be spent by local enterprise partnerships, and proper scrutiny and auditing arrangements must be in place to ensure that that money is expended properly. The public demand nothing less, and if the Government do not support this measure, it is incumbent on them to explain how that scrutiny will take place. If scandals are uncovered in the future because of a lackadaisical approach adopted by the Government, they will not be able to say they were not warned. I hope the Minister will sleep easy in his bed if he rejects these reasonable measures, because I believe that would put taxpayers’ money at risk of being misused. He needs to reassure the House and—more importantly—the wider public.
Local Audit and Accountability Bill [Lords]
Debate between Andy Sawford and Chris Williamson
Chris Williamson
The hon. Gentleman is a big champion of vested interests in the private sector, so I am not surprised that he tries to argue that what the Government are doing is right. It is not for me to square that. If he has an issue with what the Communities and Local Government Committee has said, I ask him to take that up with the Committee. I am quoting directly from its conclusions after it looked at the matter in some detail. Do not come to me and ask me to square that. I invite him to ask the Committee to square the evidence that it took. This is the reasoned conclusion that it reached—
Chris Williamson
Indeed. As I understand it, those were the unanimous findings of the Communities and Local Government Committee.
The Bill is misconceived in another respect. My right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central dealt with this eloquently. In the Bill, there is no recognition of joint working, which is essential; it was increasingly important when I was leader of Derby city council. We worked to bring other public sector agencies on side with us to get more bangs for the public sector pound that was being spent in Derby, and that is even more essential as the budget at our disposal diminishes.
Therefore, I hope—my right hon. Friend made this plea—that the Government will reflect on the matter. If, as seems likely, they proceed with the Bill, I hope they will consider how the audit process could be made more relevant and up to date, given the situation we find ourselves in and the way in which public services are delivered. It does not make sense to require each public sector body to undertake a separate audit. It would be far better to recognise the fact that local authorities and other public sector agencies are working collaboratively. It is far better to have a collective audit that recognises the reality of the way in which public services are delivered in this day and age.