English Votes for English Laws and North Wales

Debate between Andrew Turner and Albert Owen

Wednesday 1st July 2015 Westminster Hall

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered English votes for English laws and North Wales.

It is good to see so many hon. Members from across the United Kingdom who are interested in North Wales. That was the purpose of this debate. We live in interesting constitutional times and I welcome the opportunity to put the case for Wales, and North Wales in particular. In the 1880s we had the Irish question. In the latter part of the 20th century, there was devolution to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and we had the West Lothian question. Today, we have the North Wales question, which is an important constitutional issue.

Although I support it, devolution is unbalanced, asymmetrical and needs adjusting, but I do not believe the Government’s proposal for English votes on English laws is the answer. The UK Parliament is creaking and the devolution settlement is messy, but we need to deal with it objectively through a UK constitutional convention. That is the basis of my argument.

I want to make it clear that I support devolution. I supported it in the 1970s, when the majority of my party did not, and I supported it in 1997-98, when it was the will of the Welsh people, and the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland. It is important to remember that part of that devolution settlement was the creation of the London Assembly and the establishment of the Mayor of London, giving powers to the largest city in England. That was important, but we should have gone further. I am not just saying that with hindsight; I was arguing for it at the time, before I was a Member of Parliament, because I could see that it was an uneven settlement. I should have liked the regions of England to have an element of devolution, too, because that would have provided balance.

I go a step further than my party: I believe in a federal United Kingdom. I think we should have an English Parliament within the UK. We should retain the UK Parliament for foreign affairs and other bigger issues that concern the whole United Kingdom. I know, because I am a realist, that this is not an issue for today, but we must look to the future for a UK convention on constitutional rights.

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman explain whether there would be a separate House of Commons in a federal organisation, compared with the English basis, or can they be combined?

[Albert Owen]

I appreciate that intervention from a fellow islander. I was in Jersey yesterday, watching the Island games and cheering Isle of Wight on. The hon. Gentleman makes a serious point. We need a proper convention to consider these issues, because some of the arguments have not been dealt with in great detail in this House. The knee-jerk reaction of having English laws and English votes is not the answer; it is a sticking plaster and it will cause more problems than it will create solutions.

Sustainable Development Goals

Debate between Andrew Turner and Albert Owen

Tuesday 16th June 2015 Westminster Hall

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Mr Turner. I welcome the Minister to his new appointment, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) on securing the debate. A lot of what I wanted to say was said by the first few speakers and by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford), but I will concentrate with a lot of optimism on some of the goals outlined on climate change, energy and sustainability.

We need joined-up thinking between the Department of Energy and Climate Change and the Department for International Development. We need to work together. In the past, Departments have tended to work in silos. That is why I mentioned in my intervention the need to co-operate with the devolved Administrations. I have seen some very good practice in Wales, such as the bilateral agreement between Wales and Lesotho, with links between the schools. They are going out to educate young people there. Link-ups through modern technology are also easy to do. Many primary schools in my constituency of Ynys Môn have live link-ups to see exactly what life is like there.

I must make a declaration: I have never done anything in the conventional way. I left school at 15 and went into the merchant navy. I saw with my own eyes some of the extreme poverty and extreme wealth across the world, and it shaped my life and my politics in many ways. It is important in this modern 21st century that young people have those links with the developing world.

I congratulate the Government on some of their work, particularly on Ebola. There has been a great coming together of the world’s health organisations and this country’s national health service to provide essential skills to help eradicate that disease. Good work is being done. I am proud that the United Kingdom has a Department for International Development, and I was proud when it was set up. I am also proud of the Climate Change Act 2008. The theme of my speech is that we need to link those two together. We need to understand, as the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire said, the importance of weaning countries that have developed on fossil fuels off them.

This is a golden opportunity for countries that do not have the infrastructure or the legacy from oil and gas and that can adapt many of the new technologies being developed across the world. Solar energy, for example, can go into villages in isolated locations around the world. We can have new schools and clean water because we will have the electricity to provide the pumps in those areas. That is a great opportunity.

Goal 7 talks about ensuring

“access to affordable, reliable, sustainable, and modern energy”.

One problem in industrialised countries such as the United Kingdom is that our energy facilities are ancient and need to be rebuilt and retrofitted in many ways. Newer, underdeveloped countries have the opportunity to start from day one, but we have to learn and do it by example. We are doing well with our goals on renewable energy. The hon. Lady and I will not agree on nuclear power, but I believe that it will help us to reduce our carbon emissions. We in the United Kingdom have 1% of the world’s population but produce 2% of carbon emissions. We need to reduce that. Nuclear technology can help us to do that, but we have to lead on it.

With these two big conferences coming up in New York and Paris, I hope that the Minister will assure me that he, the Secretary of State for International Development and his Department are talking with the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change so that we have joined-up thinking. We can then go on to the world stage, lead by example and use our expertise in a positive way to combat climate change and its impact on lesser developed countries.

I have a few final things to say about Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland before the hon. Member for Glasgow North replies—is that how it works? The Department for International Development needs to get out more, to be absolutely frank. It needs to go to East Kilbride, where the Department has an office. It needs to go to the Welsh Assembly and Belfast to see the good practice in the devolved Administrations, as well as to the regions of England. Rather than talking to ourselves here in the UK Parliament, we need to go out and learn from the best examples. We can then hopefully go to these summits, speaking and working with the devolved Administrations, to put the case for all parts of the United Kingdom and show leadership across the world. These are important summits. We want to be present and we want to make a difference.

Finally, I will talk about the Make Poverty History campaign. Although I indicated that I did not do things in the conventional way and went to sea at 16, the Make Poverty History movement really excited me because it brought together the Churches, non-governmental organisations and real people across this country. That was the important thing about that movement, and it left us with these development goals. We are now going into round 2, and we must ensure that the goals are meaningful and that they work.

[Mr Andrew Turner (in the Chair)]

There are 22 minutes left for the major parties, followed by Mr Grady for two minutes.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Debate between Andrew Turner and Albert Owen

Tuesday 15th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Turner]

I am in favour of whatever is voted for by the island.

I admit that I felt a twinge of sadness at the thought that I would be the last MP for the Isle of Wight, but the right decision has been made for the island and I support it unequivocally. I thank my hon. Friend the Minister for listening to the arguments and for making the right choice, albeit rather late in the day.

This is a victory for the island and the islanders. Everyone who supported us can be proud of the part that they played. I look forward to joining hon. Members of all parties in the Aye Lobby.

[Albert Owen]

It is a great pleasure to follow a fellow islander in this debate. I supported the Isle of Wight exception all the way through, and like the hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Turner), I have been consistent in the view that there should be exemptions for unique island constituencies such as his and Ynys Môn—the Isle of Anglesey.

I have a lot of respect for the Minister, who has had a difficult job in presenting the Bill to the House. He has been courteous and amicable in taking interventions. He was rigid in his responses, and always said that he would not give an exemption to the Isle of Wight and gave his reasons for that. However, as the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) said, the Minister has now let the cat out of the bag: the exemption is a political fix, pure and simple. To argue for days and days in the House for no exemption for the Isle of Wight, Cornwall and other historic places, and then all of a sudden to make a U-turn for political advantage, is an absolute disgrace.

The people of Anglesey are proud people. It has been a seat since 1535, during which time it has been represented by four different parties, which is perhaps unique in the House. The Liberal Democrats represented Anglesey for many years, as did the Conservatives. I can tell the House that Anglesey will give its verdict in the May elections on its shabby treatment by this coalition Government of Liberals and Conservatives.

Wales has not been treated fairly in the Bill. The 25% reduction in the number of seats is an absolute disgrace. What is more, the Anglesey community is unique. It is coterminous with the county council. It has unique linguistic as well as historic characteristics, but they have not been recognised.

The hon. Member for Isle of Wight was supportive of islands such as mine, and I am still supportive of his, but the Government have gone a step too far by conceding seats that will represent in the region of 50,000 to 55,000 electors. If they want to put that down as a marker, they should reconsider seats such as Anglesey. The island will be a single constituency in National Assembly for Wales, so there will be confusion at the next elections if they take place on the same day. One set of voters will be voting for the island and another set will be voting for the island-plus. That is completely and utterly wrong, and the Minister should reflect on it. He is looking at his notes, and he has been courteous all the way through, but I hope that he can now somehow please Wales, because thus far, Wales has been treated grossly unfairly.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Debate between Andrew Turner and Albert Owen

Monday 1st November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

I tabled amendment 1 to protect the Isle of Wight. The needs and interests of the people of the Isle of Wight are different from those of people living on the mainland. However, it is not only on behalf of the islanders that I oppose the change; my proposal makes better sense for the mainland as well. The island needs local representation, whether by one or two Members of Parliament. What will not do is the creation of one whole constituency with an electorate of 76,000, with the remaining 34,000 forming part of another constituency extending across the sea to the mainland.

On 15 July, the Deputy Prime Minister told the Select Committee on Political and Constitutional Reform that we must

“come to terms with the need for extensive political reform in order to re-establish public trust in what we do here”.

I agree with the Deputy Prime Minister’s words, but it is hard to reconcile them with his actions. His aim is the establishment of 600 constituencies of more or less equal size. He says that he wants greater public trust and transparency, yet he has arbitrarily decided that exceptions will be made for some Scottish islands and not others. That is it: no discussion, no consultation, no justification. I am not criticising the Deputy Prime Minister for what he said, but he has not satisfactorily explained why Isle of Wight residents are not entitled to the consideration that is given to Scottish islanders. Like the Scottish islands, we on the Isle of Wight are physically separate from the mainland, but our uniqueness is totally ignored. We have no roads, trains or planes—

[Albert Owen]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Turner]

Not for the moment, if the hon. Gentleman will forgive me.

What we have is a limited and sometimes eye-wateringly expensive ferry service. It is necessary to live on an island to understand how limiting that can be. Some islanders rarely or never travel to the mainland, and there are times when it is impossible to reach it because of weather or sea conditions. Ferries themselves provide evidence that the interests of electors on opposite sides of the Solent are very different. The Lymington River Association is vehemently opposed to the new ferries on the Yarmouth-Lymington route, while islanders who do travel to the mainland need the improved services that the companies are trying to offer.